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UGGGG Hexamita

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By New Guppy Momma
from the frustrated NGM department, Section Diaries
Posted on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 05:21:43 AM PST
I think I have Hexamita.



I'm pretty sure my swordtail was infested with it. Unfortunately he passed away on Saturday. SO he got flushed.
But just yesterday I noticed my platinum sunset dwarf gourami had the tell-tale string poop and was spitting out it's food. Makes me want to pull my hair out. And now today my Yucatan Black mollies are spitting food.

All this on top of a family kitten crisis last Thursday. My cat had kittens 2 weeks ago and last Thursday we noticed one wasn't growing and had a runny nose. So I went to the pet store and got a bottle and kitten milk. Well he wouldn't drink and by 10pm he passed away.My Hubby figured pneumonia. Probably caused by amniotic fluid retention in his lungs.
But we have 4 female kittens that are all fat and healthy. All but one now have their eyes open. The mom (my cat Keiko) is Siamese and unfortunately none of the kittens look Siamese. Their father(s) are the toms that run wild around the neighborhood.

Anyway back to my fish. So they are sick. Well Luckily I remembered I have a package of Parasite Clear (Jungle Labs) and so I dosed the tank. This is my 75 gallon Beast. I know for a fact there's not 75 gallons of water in it but I'm not sure of the exact amount. So I dosed for 70 gallons. So 7 tablets (one tablet per 10 gallons) went in this morning after pulling the carbon and bio-filter pads. The bio-filter pads are soaking in a bucket of water from my 10 gallon guppy tank. I also added extra gravel to the guppy tank so once the treatment on the Beast is done (up to 2 treatments with 48 hours and a 25% water change between treatments, there goes the water bill:) I can re-seed the cycle in the Beast. So I'm not adding any new fish at this time. I also need to do that 25% water change as the Beast is starting to smell (PU, AMMONIA). Guess even just 9 small fish was an overload of the "new" system. Even tho I seeded and used "dirty" water from the guppy tank to help it get going. Altho going 3 weeks on 6 gallon/week water changes is probably not all that bad. That's less than a 10% weekly change. Might have to go with my 15% twice weekly changes once the treatment for Hexamita is done.
So Thursday I do the 2nd treatment (7 tablets, after a 25% water change) and on Saturday I'll do a 25% water change, add the carbon and biofilter's  back in and be good to go I hope. Then I'll give it another 2-3 weeks before I introduce any more fish. Maybe the 6 gallon twice a week water changes will be in order.

So between my kittens, kids, fish and the nice spring weather we're having (in the mid 50's to low 60's today [*F]) I'm keeping busy. I got my seeds for my garden going inside so I now need to plan my beds and get going with that. YAY for fish water here. I can water and fertilize all in one shot. I knew there was a reason the Beast is near the front door :) and not just because that's the only part of the floor that could support the weight.

Well the kids need tending now. I have to get breakfast going.  

Hope everyone has a great week.

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UGGGG Hexamita | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 hidden)
Re: UGGGG Hexamita (none / 0) (#1)
by guppylover427 on Tue Mar 04, 2008 at 08:29:39 PM PST

sorry to hear about the fish. My saltwater kinda fell apart too, im just waiting till I sprout an idea of what to do about it. It stinks when a tank is doing so well then one fish brings disease and messes everything up (that's what happened in my case). Hope you figure it out.
Kittens!
What? Were you expecting something funny?


And a regular salt water site suggests... (none / 0) (#8)
by unclescott on Wed Mar 12, 2008 at 03:15:09 PM PST

http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/diseasequarqt/a/aa041398.htm

[ Parent ]


I'm so sorry that something nasty got loose (none / 0) (#4)
by unclescott on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 11:11:59 AM PST

in your salt water tank. If new fish are just introduced to a tank, sooner or later that will happen.

If you think people on Guppylog are fanatical about getting a quarantine tank, take a look at what the better informed marine aquarists say. Essentially they are saying, "If you can't afford a quarantine tank, your really will not be able to afford to replace all of the wonderful fish you will kill."

And I'm sure that with all of the time you have spent on and around Guppylog that you had a chance to read the comments on quarantine tanks in Immediate Help. (Visitors, as time permits, please read them.)vise

We all get in the "penny wise, pound foolish" mode. But it is a very unwise thing to do in many situations, sort of like "oh I can go another 10,000 miles without changing the car's oil."

When we were kids (what is there about the XY chromosome which makes guys pyromaniacs?) we used to get a foot long narrow copper conduit pipe and crimp an end tight using a vise. Then it was filled with match heads laboriously cut off of the sticks (yep, the infamous match bomb). Lastly a fuse was inserted and that end was much more carefully crimped shut. The "missile" could be set on top of a post in a grape arbor. The fuse was lit and that would shoot across the yard and into a neighbor's yard. What fun!

It wasn't yet illegal as far as we knew. But even we knew it was risky and that was a part of the allure. Sometimes it is amazing that we grew up reasonably whole.

Of course there was that reckless guy who kept putting an extra lot of pressure on that last end of the pipe. After the inevitable explosion and emergency room visit, he was nicknamed "one thumb."

[ Parent ]



Re: UGGGG Hexamita (none / 0) (#2)
by New Guppy Momma on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 05:31:52 AM PST

UUUURRRRGGGG
Now the stupid tank went all cloudy (white foggy looking). All I know to get rid of it is time and water changes.

Well it's a new tank so the cloudyness is not really unexpected. But I was hoping I could get by without it. Good thing the entire tank is on quarantine. I can treat everyone. They seem to be a bit better today.

Oh and I have baby black fish (yucatan mollies?).
Oh and baby guppies in the guppy tank too :)

Good luck on your fishy endeavors. Can't let a tank sit empty for too long :)
Before all else fails....do a 25% water change ;)
[ Parent ]



"I think I have Hexamita" Actually... (none / 0) (#3)
by unclescott on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 10:45:29 AM PST

of course your fish had it and I hope that is gone. Make sure all water changed out goes down the toilet and that the activated carbon, used to remove the treatment, is tossed in the garbage.

New Guppy Mamma, would you compare the ingredients on your internal parasite treatment with the stuff I mention below for the external treatment.

If I had that item, I probably would have tried it too, though as you can see it trashed the nitrogen cycle. There is an antibiotic treatment which is not supposed to be so devastating on the nitrogen cycle. There are also other treatments which don't touch the nitrogen cycle. (See below.) All of them are hard on snails.

I didn't pick up much chemistry in my study as a history major. So a lot of the info below is culled from other stuff on the Net. There is also quite a bit on Hexamita (in a general sense) in a couple of sections of Immediate Help.

Treating Hexamita with Jungle Labs Internal Parasite Guard:

It is claimed that Internal Parasite Guard,  "Clears Internal Parasites. Helps clear internal parasites that can cause listlessness, loss of weight and premature death of fish."

http://www.animalworldnetwork.com/julainpagu2o.html

On the Jungle site:
http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=NJ115

says that
Parasite Guard
     "Clears External Parasites
and is "A safe, effective treatment for the common external parasites that live on the skin, fins, gills and mouth cavity of fish including anchor worms, fish lice, gill and body flukes, and gill mites. Harmless to fish, plants and biological filter beds."

I would beg to differ about the filter beds. Note that there is no mention of Hexamita.

My External Parasite Guard, which may not have the exact ingredients as the Internal Parasite guard. I got it as a sample. I'd only buy broad-spectrum treatments as internal parasite treatments because external parasites would be treated too.

The external treatment  lists ingredients of Sodium Chloride, dimethyl (2-2-2-trichloro-1- hydroxyethyl) phosphonate, carmoisine B.A.

Sodium chloride of course is everyday "salt."

carmoisine B.A. is possibly among the Anti-HIV/OI Chemical Compounds.

When considering dimethyl (2-2-2-trichloro-1- hydroxyethyl) phosphonate, one site records:

"ROUTE OF EXPOSURE
Inhalation: Material is irritating to mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract.
Multiple Routes: May be harmful by inhalation, ingestion, or skin absorption. Causes eye and skin irritation."

It has an ACUTE TOXICITY - causing possible Behaviors such as Somnolence (general depressed activity), Convulsions or effect on seizure threshold or Coma.
"For R&D use only. Not for drug, household or other uses."

OH REALLY!

http://agrippina.bcs.deakin.edu.au/bcs_admin/msds/msds_docs/Carmoisine.pdf

Another site observes that:
 dimethyl (2-2-2-trichloro-1- hydroxyethyl) phosphonate is a Pesticide. It also goes by the  name of trichlorfon and is an insecticide that is used to control flies, roaches, and turf pests such as webworms, mole crickets and grubworms. Additionally, trichlorfon can be used as an anthelmintic composition (de-wormer) for animals.

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5922404-description.html

Interestingly, this organophosphate is also found in Fluke Tabs. I'll bet it is a de-wormer! I've mentioned, nearly ranted, about using organophosphates in aquariums unless there is really no alternative. Orthophosphates kill via an often-intense neurotoxic activity. In other words they really mess up the nervous system and the roach or whatever dies. They tend to be broad spectrum killers. (Anthelmintics by comparison are more specific.)

Jungle probably feels that the relatively inert crystalline form (says he unscrewing the cap and looking in the bottle - don't sneeze!) is used in such a small quantity in the aquarium to be usually safe around us. But keep it out of the little kids' reach! :0

Once in a while somebody in a goofy mood suggests eating an overlarge aquarium fish. I'm uncomfortable from the standpoint of eating a pet. But think about stuff like the orthophosphates being stored (with each treatment) in the animal's tissues (though fats would more likely be discarded).

You are wise to now get the stuff out with activated carbon. That is in the instructions I'll bet. But I would also bet that your would have done that anyway. And of course throw the carbon in the garbage.

I've tossed used carbon in the garden when just taking fishy wastes out of the water. Medicines are a different situation.

Can you take some gravel from your other tank after a day or so and dump it in the beast to again help with reseeding of beneficial bacteria? In the meantime, don't feed the fish in the beast or only feed them a tiny bit, which is immediately taken up. As you know that food will immediately pass on ammonia, which the tank may not be prepared to deal with.

One can also use anti-microbial drugs like metronidazole or Di-metronidazole. It is marketed under a couple of brand names such as Hex-a-mit. It is easier for male aquarists to go to a pet shop and ask for Hex-a-mit than to go to a regular physician and ask for Flagel.

Also the anthelmintic Flubendazole and maybe others seems to do the trick. PetSmart carries Gel-Tek's Ultra Cure PX, which might help if the fish will nose around the stuff. It includes both Metronidazole and two anthelmintics.

Often one of the problems is that with one of the flagellate attacks, the fish stop eating because their gut is so full of flagellate and their throats are so sore that they can't take food. Fortunately Metronidazole and the anthelmintics can be absorbed through the gills.

Way back when  wrote that "It seems that Hexamita and it's near (relative) the Spironucleus are flagellated protozoans which can swim away from a fish and seek out another (at least as youngsters). Sometimes they cause trouble (see GG's comments), sometimes not. There was even another genus of relatives which live in fish, but  probably couldn't be even classed as parasites. There are other flagellated protozoans which can be troublesome for fish (under certain stressful conditions).

Settled Hexamita don't have the long filaments used for swimming, but young (or free-swimming) ones do seem to be able to be expelled from a fish and swim to another. So fry should be treated too.

One study suggested cichlids in a treated tank developed a certain immunity. New fish got it though."

This may be too much after the fact. However for you and me and anyone reading this, please keep it in mind. And the next time we (and I do mean we) fall a little behind in water changes, the tank gets less than pristine and fish begin getting emaciated, spitting up food and/ or passing long stringy, almost empty white feces (because the parasites ate all of the real food), we will have an even better idea what to do.

All the best!
uncle I-will-never-be-a-chemist scott

[ Parent ]



Never-be-a-chemist-either (none / 0) (#5)
by New Guppy Momma on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 01:04:24 PM PST

But the ingredient list on the back of the package is as follows
praziquantel (the only de-wormer that works on tapeworms...how do I know....another pet story :)
diflubenzuron
metronidazole
acriflavine

So some are on the list of things to try.
Also on the back of the package it says
Parasite clear removes external and internal parasites...protozoans, flukes, internal worms....and flagellates such as hexamita...

Back in Texas I did use the Fungus Clear with success to treat what may have been Hexamita.

I've only been feeding them twice a day. Now down to once a day. And only 5 of the 8 keep from spitting out the food. I did notice that my nice male silver molly has the stringy poop today. He's still eating so I'm hoping he's expelling any disease he may have picked up. Tomorrow I'm going to repeat the treatment after a 25% water change.
I'm also tossing around going ahead and treating with Fungus Clear as well. Just as kinda a safety net/quarantine treatment.

I know I was slacking in the water change department. It's a new tank and I guess I was trying to "rush" the cycle. And I ended up with a disease and now cloudy water. I can still see thru the tank and see all the fish. It's like looking thru a light layer of fog tho. I know just time and increased water changes will take care of that. Oh and for the  next couple weeks all water change water will go down the drain.

Well More later. Gotta get things started for the afternoon/evening rush in my home.
Before all else fails....do a 25% water change ;)
[ Parent ]



Excellent! Horray for Jungle too. When (none / 0) (#6)
by unclescott on Wed Mar 05, 2008 at 06:04:05 PM PST

I e-mailed asking about specific anthelmintics in their treatments a few years ago, their spokesperson wouldn't tell me what the specific anthelmintic was in a product.

You did well in checking. diflubenzuron (Dimilin) is an insecticide which you didn't need. But on the whole "they" are doing a pretty good mix on some products. It behooves us to always check on the current product in the store before buying it. It sounds like what was offered a few years ago may have been tweaked in a good direction.

[ Parent ]



No more clouds (none / 0) (#7)
by New Guppy Momma on Thu Mar 06, 2008 at 09:02:08 AM PST

The cloudy water cleared right up. No water changes or anything. So I'm thinking it had something to do with the treatment. I didn't get the second dose in yet. I need to get to Walmart to get it (going in about an hour). I do think I need it tho. My sunset platinum is now keeping food in his mouth but ALL my fish now have the stringy poop. So once I do this 2nd treatment I'll add carbon back in on Saturday, then on Monday I'll dose the tank with the Fungus meds I have just as a preventative. Any new fish purchases will get a preventative treatment in my "spare" 10 gallon (still stored under the Beast).

Well gotta get my mermaid into the tub. She's covered in frosting.
Before all else fails....do a 25% water change ;)
[ Parent ]



Never did a 2nd treatment (none / 0) (#9)
by New Guppy Momma on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 05:21:03 AM PST

I couldn't find the Parasite Clear in  any of the stores available close by. I know Petco probably has it but it's on the other side of town. And with the size of the city I'm in it's a good 1/2 hour drive thru traffic since my Hubby isn't home until after 4:30pm. SO maybe next time we're out that way (Chuck E Cheese is out there and I have a party there on Wednesday. My oldest turns 11:)I'll stop in and get a package.

But my fishies seem to be doing ok. They've turned into poop machines. They're all alive and I even noticed the addition of a couple tiny black mollie babies. I was thinking next weekend I'll run a water sample in to my fish place and see what they say and maybe pick up some more Gourami's or maybe a few tetra's.

Well the cat (and her 4 kittens. 3 weeks old) all have "goopy" eyes. And my wonderful 5 year old has the flu so I have my work cut out for me today. Plus one of those notorious water changes. For both my tanks today.
Have a "Fishtastic" day :)
Before all else fails....do a 25% water change ;)
[ Parent ]



UGGGG Hexamita | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 hidden)
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