Welcome to GuppyLog.com
New to Guppylog?
Immediate Help


Conversions and Calculator
Conversions and Tank volume calculator


Add yourself to our guppylog map
Guppylog Members


* Change as much water as often as you can! *
Inkmaker
Front Page · Everything · News · Ask Guppylog · Diaries
ICK ICH ICKY ICK.......

All Topics
By New Guppy Momma
from the Helpful NGM department, Section Diaries
Posted on Thu Jan 10, 2008 at 08:57:28 AM PST
Not my tank but my sister's tank has ICH.
 



I am going over this afternoon to help her treat the tank after a 50% water change.
I will be using Jungle Labs Ick Guard (remove carbon and 1 teaspoon/5 gallons every 24 hours until ick is gone. With 25% water change between doses.) They sent it to me as a freebie for taking a survey. I haven't had to use it in my tank yet.....thank goodness.

Her poor little fish look like someone up-ended a salt shaker on them.

Her set-up is a 10 gallon "kit" complete with filter and heater. She also has 4 real plants (don't know their names).
Her wildlife run down.... 3 tetra's (looks like 2 albino's and a Buenos Aires) her husband had for a while, 3 Neon Tetra's (with the worst of the ick), a Betta, a Swordtail male, a female mickey mouse platty, 2 fiddler crabs, and a little pleco (also spotty with ick).
Of course they didn't let it cycle but I traded my biofilter pad in my tank with the new one in their tank so they at least had a bit of good bacteria to get their tank going.

That said what, in addition to the ick guard, can we do for the tank? I seem to see a bit on salt and raising the temp but so much differing information. Oh and Immediate Help is still not working right. It sometimes will work but more often than not it's a real pain to find something.

The 3 original tetra's and the platy as well as the crabs so far are unaffected by spots.
No she's not borrowing my siphon. I need it. If we have to I'll dip water out of her tank.And her biofilter will hang out in a bowl of water while we treat the tank. Then when it's all treated I'll fill her tank with a 20% water change from mine.

We might have to euthanize a fish or two. I have an empty yogurt cup for that. (fish in cup then freezer then trash can. Trash pick-up is tomorrow:)

Thanks for any help. We did have a cold front come thru last night too tho. Dropped the temps 30* overnight.

< A Visit to the Frugal Aquarist's "Library" | Hi fin/lyretail/sworded platy >
Menu

· create account

· F.A.Q. For Newbies!

· Immediate Help For Newbies!

· search


Web www.guppylog.com

· Scoop Info

· Our Tanks

Login
Make a new account
Username:
Password:

Related Links
· New Guppy Momma's Diary

Display: Sort:
ICK ICH ICKY ICK....... | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 hidden)
Bringing in seasoned filter material is (none / 0) (#1)
by unclescott on Sat Jan 12, 2008 at 04:00:48 AM PST

a terrific idea. But if you now took it out of both aquariums, it will need to be restarted because the beneficial bacteria will starve in a short time away from the fish and aquarium water. Maybe you will want to swap in another filter pad of yours, which will be well colonized by the time treatment is done. Can the old ones be bleached along with the air stone and line being used during treatment?

Doing the 50% partial water change before treatment is sooo essential. Since an uncycled tank or (my specialty in that case in Immediate Help) a dirty tank (along with temperature drops, over crowding, over feeding, adding unquarantined fish, tossing the pet shop water in their bag into the tank and/or stress caused by a bully) are right up there among the causes of an Ich breakout. If there is enough treated, somewhat seasoned water of the same temperature, I might seek to do a 50% partial water change as often as I could. Since theoretically 50% of the medication is being taken out, do a 50% dosage after putting in the new water. (When I was treating my Endler's tank I was lucky enough to be able to change 50% daily for a week. A lot of fish were still lost but there would have been more otherwise.)

By the way, another really important reason for gravel vacuuming everyday during an Ich outbreak is that that removed a lot of the cysts resting in the gravel, soon to break open into scores of moving organisms seeking to re-infect our fish.

The stressful situation suggests that a good air supply should be helpful. That both helps the fish breathe, resist the parasites and heal and may help the cycling process proceed incrementally faster. Can an air stone be temporarily installed?

You indicated that your sister didn't have a gravel vacuum. Maybe you could get her a gravel vac and test kit as an early birthday present. So much organic material settles in the gravel, that it is my prejudice that one shouldn't gravel a tank if they aren't using a gravel vac to go over half the tank, each partial water change. Yes, one can keep a tank without a gravel vacuum, but it is a lot harder. Sort of like entering a canoe race with a rowboat. ;)

If a test kit for ammonia is used and there is a dangerous level of that stuff, another quick fix in addition to the increased partial water changes, is to feed not at all for a day or two. Then feed sparingly. When medication is over, activated carbon (done in a couple of days if taking out medications) or other ammonia absorbers can be used. It does get used up pretty quickly and should be replaced. That is why I only use absorbers and resins for emergencies.

If a fish dies, of course it needs to get removed quickly so the others don't cannibalize it. Rotting meat also sends ammonia supplies skyrocketing.

Do test the water if possible. And I understand that individuals of the free swimming Ich stage may get into that test equipment. That could be bleached or just left in a jar for a day or so. Supposedly those free-swimmers need a host within about 24 or they will starve to death. You mentioned the freezing weather and I would leave that vial outside with other equipment you are trying to make safer. I have not one, but two gravel vacuums outside, "weathering" at the moment.

Salt can irritate guppies' and other fishes' skin to the point where the skin produces a thicker layer of skin slime (mucus) and supposedly this makes it harder for the Ich organisms to colonize the fish. One level tablespoon per gallon probably wouldn't hurt. That could be added with each gallon on a water change too. That does really, really raise the tank's TDS (Total Dissolved Solids). When the fish return to health, as you know, the partial water changes need to be kept up. Maybe in the first partial water change after treatment, add a level teaspoon per gallon that first time so that the drop in TDS isn't so sudden and stressful.

Salt can also help fish to breath better when there is too much ammonia/nitrite/nitrate in the water because the nitrogen in those substances gets taken in through the gills and that can limit the ability of hemoglobin to carry oxygen. Using salt like that hopefully can help the fish absorb the oxygen more efficiently.

Fish that get lethargic breathe less (or struggle to move the gills more) and may sit on the bottom of an aquarium. Those could be dying of nitrogen poisoning. (Sometimes their gills turn from bright red to a red-brown.) If nothing is done, they will die, sometimes in very little time. :(

I was surprised and dismayed to discover that treatment successful to the point that the Ich visually disappears and all the fish look healthy DOES NOT mean that there are no Ich organisms in that tank. Terry Fairfield has suggested that what has happened is that the Ich population dropped to a non-lethal level and the fish's immune systems are able to combat those skin (epidermis because Ich also can coat gills and suffocate fish) parasites.

I suppose an analogy is that we may have cold or flu germs around us. We are fine until preparations for all that the Christmas season involves tires us out. Then our own immune systems aren't as effective as they were and whammo!

Indeed my best explanation for a bloom in that tank of mine (aside from my neglectful care of those Endler's) was that they had Ich cysts in their skin and, from time to time, in the water. Since I had had those fish for 4-5 years, there must have been some level of continuing infection since none of the original Endler's livebearers would still be alive after all that time. One can reasonably suggest that the Ich organisms were transferred from fish to fish and hung on in their tank at a &#8220;sub-lethal level&#8221;. I hadn't seen any Ich outbreaks in my aquariums in over 20 years. While that does not mean that those little critters weren't in my other aquariums, it was note worthy that the Ich outbreak, when the fish room's temperature dropped abruptly, only happened in that one aquarium. There were 20 nearby, better cared for tanks which weren&#8217;t bothered at all.

Those fish in the afflicted 10-gallon had been kept in Endler's only tanks ever since they first were acquired. Endler's from that strain, which were in other quarters, did not show an outbreak of Ich, maybe since their tanks were a lot cleaner and less likely to leave them stressed.

By the way, Buenos Aires tetras (Hyphessobrycon anisitsi, formerly Hemigrammus anisitsi) are great aquarium fishes. They eat anything, including plants and maybe guppy tails. But if there is only one or three if the albinos are also Buenos Aires tetras  they may not have enough company to keep themselves occupied and at that point may have pestered (stressed) the guppies, Betta (which also should not have been in there) and the smaller tetras. Those larger tetras grow to 2.5 to 4 inches and simply would become too robust for guppies. Sort of like keeping your poodle with coyotes. :(

As for not being able to get into GL, I am very frustrated for you. Quite clearly those server problems are partly the cause of less traffic and participation here.

My new exercise program is pounding away on the "reload current page" button (Firefox) or the "refresh" button (Internet Explorer). ;) Boy will one finger become stronger!

Sometimes switching back and forth on the "back one page" arrow helps. And if all else fails (when I've had the computer on for several hours) I'll turn off that machine. After a short interval it will be turned back on and, off line, I'll run the day's maintenance program.

We may be more cleared headed after a nap. Maybe that works for computers too. ;)

Hope some of your sister's fish make it. I fear that they will die off until there are only 2 or 3 left, the number she probably should have started with.

In addition to Immediate Help, here's a little something more on ammonia.
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/show_article.php?article_id=431

Good luck and all the best!




Re: Bringing in seasoned filter material is (none / 0) (#2)
by New Guppy Momma on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 05:21:08 PM PST

Well somehow the darn little fish seem to be doing better. Her swordtail is all perked back up and only her Betta, Pleco and one of her Neon's look "salted". I was only able to treat them once (due to conflicting schedules between us). I do think she will lose her Betta tho. He's pretty much covered in tiny white bumps.
She has no guppies and there is no evidence that anyone is "munching " on anyone else (except the crabs on the plants). Her Albino's (slight evidence that at one time they may have been the so-called "mixed fruit") do a bit of chasing each other around. They've been together with the other "big" tetra for about a year now.

As for my tank we have an outbreak of regular old algae. My oldest daughter decided to "experiment" with the dechlorinator and acquiring a new bottle proved a bit difficult as getting to the store was a challenge (vehicle problems). So far I've done 3 25% changes over the last 5 days and it's looking a bit less green. Oh and no more baby gups yet either. Momma should drop within the next few days. It has been over 2 months since her first drop. But then again it is winter and I've had some furnace trouble as well. Momma, aka Blueberry Muffin, looked a bit squareish this morning when I turned off their light. Her 3 youngsters are doing well. Her son is showing yellow in his tail as well as the black and the 2 little females are black tailed and quite chubby. They are about an inch in length and seem fairly healthy.
Thanks for the help Unc.
Before all else fails....do a 25% water change ;)
[ Parent ]



Re: Bringing in seasoned filter material is (none / 0) (#3)
by New Guppy Momma on Tue Feb 12, 2008 at 09:06:24 AM PST

She lost her Pleco. But everyone else is alive and swimming. I'm thinking of rescuing her platy and keeping some of the babies.
Oh well.

Oh and my algae is under control. I almost had the beginnings of a greenwater tank for a day or two. Did whopping 50% changes for 3 days and all is clear.
I really need to learn to feed my fish less. They get a small pinch twice a day....but for 4 little gups it might be a bit too much ;0
Before all else fails....do a 25% water change ;)
[ Parent ]



Hatch a raft of mosquito eggs. Dump 'em in. (none / 0) (#4)
by unclescott on Fri Feb 15, 2008 at 12:46:43 PM PST

If everyone in the house is swatting themselves in a week, that was too much.

Just teasing of course. I know you are familiar with the idea but a couple small pond snails in there will get the uneaten food. Better as snail poop than decaying food.

I've had a real proliferation of snails in a tank of livebearers and golden bristlenose plecos. The fish are growing well, but I haven't gotten tiny bits of zucchini and algae tablets properly proportioned. Fortunately there are a couple of tanks of snail eating darters who will feast tonight and tomorrow.

In that tank, many of the little rams horns are an attractive red. Time to cull the browns. It is a lot easier culling snails than fish.

[ Parent ]



NO SNAILS :) (none / 0) (#5)
by New Guppy Momma on Sat Feb 16, 2008 at 01:08:08 PM PST

I will never purposely add snails to any of my tanks. Too hard to get rid of them. But I will go get a few ghost shrimp for it. At only 10 cents a piece (and they always throw in a few extras) I think I can afford them. I need to go get a new net too. I can't find mine. After acclimating my new purchases today I had to use my hands to scoop them into the tank.

The guppy tank did get severely neglected the last month or so tho. So I'm not surprised I have a bad case of algae. I'm just surprised (and glad) I have nothing worse.
Before all else fails....do a 25% water change ;)
[ Parent ]



" I have a bad case of algae..." (none / 0) (#6)
by unclescott on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 11:53:13 AM PST

And what does one take for that? ;)

I too have had extra algae in neglected aquariums. As you and I know, but maybe for the consoling of someone else, that algae is not entirely a bad thing. There are a LOT worse things that the tank could do with extra nitrogenous (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates...) waste. You didn't have white water, bacterial outbreaks on the fish or many of the other plagues that could have resulted. Part of the reason for that was that your probably had your tank and its nitrogen cycle pretty well established already.

[ Parent ]



Re: " I have a bad case of algae..." (none / 0) (#7)
by New Guppy Momma on Sun Feb 17, 2008 at 06:05:53 PM PST

For a bad case of algae.....I good kick in the behind to be more diligent about water changes :)

Yeah I'd rather have algae than dead, diseased fish or white cloudy water (takes forever to get rid of. Had it in one 10 gallon in Texas for a few weeks. took MAJOR (50%) e-o-d water changes to fix.). Not to mention Cyanobacteria, which I thought I had but apparently it was just bad algae :0.
Before all else fails....do a 25% water change ;)
[ Parent ]



ICK ICH ICKY ICK....... | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 hidden)
Display: Sort:

SourceForge Logo Powered by Scoop
Subscribe to our news feed
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 2002 and beyond The Management

create account | faq | search