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Question about fry...

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By darkrain636, Section Diaries
Posted on Wed Sep 19, 2007 at 02:48:59 PM PST
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I was just wondering if someone know why ALL my fry turn out to be female...



I've had a 30 gallon set up for about 7 months now. As I'm sure as you can imagine, I've had a lot of fry. Well last night I was looking carefuly at them, and noticed something. ALL the fry are female. Out of who knows how many drops, there is not even 1 male. From 4 weeks to 4 months. Yeah I know some fry are eaten right after birth, but I can't see how just the females would survive and not the males. I'm just wondering if anyone knows why this is? I was thinking maybe water temps make a difference, but I'm still not sure. Thanks!
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Question about fry... | 6 comments (6 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Supposedly the gender of certain reptiles - (none / 0) (#1)
by unclescott on Wed Sep 19, 2007 at 06:26:57 PM PST

alligators and turtles among them - are influenced by temperature. It can even over ride the influence of sex chromosomes

Quoting from a Scientific American article at
http://sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=63B8AE9D-E7F2-99DF-317460EABD11302F
"This thermosensitive period occurs after the egg has been laid, so sex determination in these reptiles is at the mercy of the ambient conditions affecting egg clutches in nests. For example, in many turtle species, eggs from cooler nests hatch as all males, and eggs from warmer nests hatch as all females. In crocodilian species—the most studied of which is the American alligator—both low and high temperatures result in females and intermediate temperatures select for males."

I seem to recall one theory for the extinction of dinosaurs associated with the collision of a huge meteor and the world, possibly in what would become Mexico's Yucatan peninsula. The debris thrown into the atmosphere may have led to a period of cooler temperatures as the dust in the atmosphere shielded the earth from the sun. That could leave a generation of same sex dinosaurs. Huge volcanic eruptions have done that on a more modest basis. 1816 was "the year without a summer" after Krakatoa's eruption.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2004/apr/29/science.research

The debate about what can alter sex ratios among aquarium fish has long raged on e-mail lists and at aquarium gatherings. Most of the evidence is anecdotal. pH does seem to effect the popular kribensis, a West African cichlid.

Some fishes seem to throw more of one gender when they are young and the other gender when they are old. Temperature is again considered as an issue. Among fishes where females (though it could be males ) are generally a lot smaller than males, haphazard feeding of young adults will lead to cannibalism and too many of one gender. Shelter could be a factor in the same way. Water chemistry, among other things, has also been dragged into the fray. Patents have been issued, by the way, for methods of altering the spermatozoa of mammals in order to control gender.

Hypoxic water (low in oxygen) in polluted areas may also effect gender ratios. Seasonal temperature fluctuations (high and low) have been associated with seasonal gender preponderances among some ocean dwelling fry. Pollution of medicines flushed down American toilets may have a hormonal influence on small mouth black bass males developing ovaries in the Potomac.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060907/ap_on_sc/intersex_fish

They have even tried to raise all male Tilapia for purposes of getting more food out of a pond. Efforts to control released triploid (they have three sets of chromosomes, not just two) grass carp by releasing sterile or one gender have been tried - not always successfully in that they have sometimes reproduced..

Now it is possible that your guppies just defied the odds and had all females. If you play lotteries, either don't buy tickets or really do participate. ;)

What age were your guppy parents when the fry were conceived and born? Would the parents have been
under six months of age, 6-12 months, 12-18 months?

What was the usual temperature of your aquarium before the births and for a couple months afterwards?

Was the water particularly soft or low in mineral content? Or was it mineral laden? (So called softened water, run through a basement water softener actually is long on sodium.)

If you (like so many of us from time to time) let water changes slide, would the pH have gone acid?

By the way, might there be some late blooming males among your youngsters? Do all of them have obvious gravid spots? ;)

I don't know that this amateur survey will provide any answers. Your sample is statistically small too. Sometimes we see it situation and "It happens" is the best we can do to describe it. :)

All the best!



Re: (none / 0) (#2)
by darkrain636 on Thu Sep 20, 2007 at 06:49:49 PM PST

Well, I've had 3 of the 4 guppies for about 7 months now, and they were adults when I bought them. So I'm guessing most are about 9-10 months old. And 1 I've had about 10 months, so I'm guessing she's around a year old. My water temp is always between 77-79 degrees. And water changes, I still havent missed one. Which surprises myself :-) I change the water 2 times a week about 25-30 percent. Earlier today I looked carefully at my tank, and still didn't see 1 male. 1 fish is due to drop fry any day now, so I guess I can hope for some males!

About 3 weeks ago I purchased 30 guppies online. I have 10 in a 20 gallon, 7 in a 16 gallon, 3 in a 6 gallon and 10 in a 55 that I havent got cycled all the way yet.( Talk about major water changes nearly everyday!) All eventually will go into my 125 gallon tank. But I'm thinking about doing a little test with the tanks. Leave some tanks cooler then others. Maybe 74-75 degrees? And then bump others into 79-80 degrees. And after 3 months or so of drops, I'll be able to see if slight temps make a difference in the sex of fry.

[ Parent ]



If there were only four fry, that is (none / 0) (#3)
by unclescott on Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 09:00:03 AM PST

statistically not enough to make generalizations. A statistician would call that number statistically insignificant - but I would never call someone's four guppies insignificant. ;)

Championship baseball teams will still lose four games in a row in the course of a season. (Go Cubs! and - sigh - White Sox.) We've had friends who parented 4 boys in a row and yet there were girls in their family eventually. We make generalizations off of a couple dozen fish sometimes. Probably we should wait until we've cared for hundreds.

Your care sounds very good. That's a lot of gallonage and water changes! Do you do house calls? ;)

If you want to experiment, go for it. You will need a lot of space to sort fry. :)

I'm sure that you know this, but even a mere 4 degrees F (2.2 C) may increase the time between drops significantly. Maybe set up a chart or a spreadsheet in order to keep track of everybody. Stud books for guppies!

Another variable and it may be because of hormones in a tank nay influence who grows up there. At least in the cases of a few killifish, if there is a preponderance of one gender in a natural set-up, will produce a few more of the other generation in the next generation. That doesn't happen all of the time, but maybe a control on your experiment would be to have even numbers of males and females in the parenting aquarium.

All the best!

[ Parent ]



Re: If there were only four fry, that is (none / 0) (#4)
by darkrain636 on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 02:18:55 PM PST

Well I have been getting more then 4 fry from each drop. I would say on average I get about 15 fry before any get eaten. And I've been noticing that the older the fish get, the bigger their drops are.

Over the weekend I got all the fry out of my 30 gallon tank and put them into a 10 gallon tank until I figure out exactly whats going on with all my tanks.On another note, Friday night one of the fish had fry and I noticed that some are already turning black. Which I hope is a sign they are male!

[ Parent ]



Turning black could just be a sign of (none / 0) (#5)
by unclescott on Mon Sep 24, 2007 at 03:36:43 PM PST

a color sport, like black mollies. That would be pretty neat. I'm keen to keep off colored fry to see what they will become, but have never had any black ones, except for some Aphyosemion australe which had a little additional black pigment.

It could be a sign of something we can't do anything about, like cancer (melanomas running wild?). The most colorful Cuban Limias are sometimes afflicted with that. (All-black Bettas have a lethal black gene and even all black angelfish are not quite as robust as the other hobby strains.)

It might be a sign of stress and that one, with the seasoned, clean water of a consistent temperature and careful feeding (but not over-feeding) of course, we can do something about. :)

There are undoubtedly other possibilities. Sometimes these thing "just happen." All we can do is watch and offer what aid and care we can. :)

As you have noticed, the number of fry increases with the size of the mother. Also, if she is feeding well and the water is optimum, supposedly the fry are a tiny bit larger. They certainly can be more healthy.

Bet there are some males among those fry. ;)

Congratulations and Good luck!

[ Parent ]



all females? (none / 0) (#6)
by methemom on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 03:18:31 PM PST

gender is notoriously unstable in guppies. Sometimes guppies are born female and turn to males as they get older (4-8 months) They retain large deep bodies but grow male equipment and get male coloration. These fish are xxmales and can only produce female babies. Perhaps the male(s?) you are using for breeding are xx. You can find out by trying another male and see if your females then produce male offspring. methemom

[ Parent ]


Question about fry... | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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