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is she in labor or dying

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By sarahbeth8382, Section Ask Guppylog
Posted on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 06:34:44 PM PST
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Yesterday 7/1/2007 I noticed that one of my pregnant guppies was acting very strange.



She was shaking her head back and forth rubbing her belly on the rocks and hiding in one of the plants by the heater and not eating very much. She also was hanging out at the bottom of the tank opening her mouth real wide and this all started yesterday afternoon and still there are no babies. So I was wondering if she is sick or in labor (all water levels are perfect and temp is 78 degrees and I just did a partial water change). Please help ASAP.
< I NEED HELP ASAP!!!!!!!! | will my lyretail guppy and blue japanese guppy have lyretail babies? >
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is she in labor or dying | 2 comments (2 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Your partial water change is a great idea! (none / 0) (#1)
by unclescott on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 08:51:49 AM PST

(Too many newer wanna be aquarists do 100% changes and unintentionally scotching the nitrogen cycle. The intentions are great, but all of us struggle to execute the correct care sometimes.) When you say that your water levels are perfect, are you saying that when you tested for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates that your readings were O, O and under 20 PPM?

If those were the sort of readings you got, then I would be concerned about parasites on your female guppy. "Over the phone" it is hard to determine what might be ailing her. The best bet would be gill flukes, which are common among livebearers from shops. I was surprised to read that they often are there in "non-lethal levels." When a fish is purchased and moved or stressed in some other way, their resistance to flukes and other maladies goes down and the parasites multiply. Fortunately treatments for gill flukes also deal with a lot of other parasites too. :)

If your tests do reveal that your tank has the very toxic ammonia or some what less toxic nitrites or too many everyday toxic nitrates in the water, keep up the partial water changes - even daily if possible. If you did a 25% water changes yesterday, do a 30% today or tomorrow. Then walk up those water changes to 35%, 40% and 45%.

If you don't have any "food quality," soap-less holding containers to season water in, please consider getting some. For people with a 10-gallon aquarium one of the quickest "fixes" is to buy 3 or 4 gallons of "drinking water" from your local grocery. Buy the best price. Don't get nursery water or water intended for mixing an infant formula. That nursery water may be straight RO (Reverse Osmosis). Like Distilled or DI water, the RO water has virtually no minerals in the water. It can kill your fish if added in large quantities!

The drinking water is often RO water, but it has been "rebuild" with quantities of calcium, magnesium and potassium (which vary some by brand). You can gradually add that as your next water change. If you can leave the jugs open for a time and make sure the temperature is the same as that in the tank, so much the better.

Then put the appropriate amount of whatever water conditioner has been recommended for your tap water (and there are differences!) Leave the tops of those holding containers open to dissipate carbon dioxide, freed up chlorine and free nitrogen in your tap water and allow the water to absorb at least a tiny bit of free oxygen. If your tank hood is strong enough AND the lights are not on, I might even leave the jugs on the tank top (overnight or while at work), once the water has warmed up some, so that temperatures are about the same. I use pretty strong pieces of glass as tank tops and can get away with that.

If water conditions are really dire, you can drop some money for a material which can be put into your filter (cut to size if necessary). Polyfilter and a bunch of other products, which your LFS or live fish shop will cheerfully sell you. I would only leave that material (or bag of material) there long enough to drop the ammonia to zero and then I would take it out. If the ammonia absorbers are there for a long time, the beneficial bacteria will starve and your nitrogen cycle will be nil.

If your water conditions are fine in terms of waste material, consider treating with Praziquantel or some combination of meds with it in. Many times the younger employees of a store will not know the contents of their treatments. Jungle and other companies are getting much better about listing their medications in their treatments for external parasites.

It probably would be best if you could treat the tank with Praziquantel (an anthelmintic) or a combination of anthelmintics rather than a complete combination which includes antibiotics or the quite effective, but potentially dangerous organophosphates.

For instance PetSmart sells the product called Gel-Tec Ultra Cure PX. It contains Parziquantel in combination with Levamisole and the antibiotic Metronidazole. I use that as a preventative treatment in quarantine, though the fish may have to ingest some of the stuff. The anthelmintics can be absorbed (along with an amazing list of other good and bad things) through the gills. The Metronidazole (despite sounding similar) is an antibiotic and while it isn't as hard on the nitrogen cycle as some antibiotics I would prefer to not use it in an aquarium which has "cycled" and is efficiently breaking down fish wastes.

Parziquantel is also available from commercial sources as Prazi-Pro. 1 Oz (73251 - treats 120 gallons).
http://www.uskoi.com/prazipro.htm

Also at:
U.S. Koi Sales
2804 McCone Avenue
Hayward,  CA  94545
(800) 621-5619

I wonder if Prazi-Pro would also be locally available through pond supply stores.

A couple of other sources:
http://revivalanimal.com/product.asp?pn=78-730&ss=Praziquantel

Fish Tapes Regular contains 34mg Praziquantel per capsule
Regular, 5ct @ $7.99

http://inkmkr.com/Fish/ItemsForSale.html

“Flubendazole Eliminate Carbon filtration during treatment. Change most of the water after 10 days. Will not harm plants, may kill many snails.

Treats protozoa wasting disease, serious treatment for Velvet, internal and external parasites, half gram treats 10 gallons of water for most parasitic Protozoa. ........
$10.00 for packet of 10 grams, plus postage.
Usually about $13.50”

Burgess, Bailey and Excell, in A-Z of Tropical Fish Diseases and Health Problems suggest that the vast majority of flashing cases are because of high levels of nitrogenous wastes. Gravel vacuuming may also get ride of a number of free swimming (commuting) parasites.

Leave the gravel vacuum outside overnight and under the summer sun after really rinsing it in the laundry sink. I was going to say rinse in the bathtub, but that may bother your family. ;)

Other signs of flukes, in addition to the flashing and scratching, include labored breathing, "hyper-production" of mucus on the gills, gasping, coughing, and eventually clamping of fins and loss of appetite. When they don't get enough oxygen, Hypoxia can also set in with yet more drastic symptoms.

For more on gills flukes Google or scan the books  for Dactylogyrus and Monogenetic flukes.

Several treatments, including the anthelmintic Praziquantel were suggested.

"Monogenetic flukes are flatworms that are usually found as ectoparasites of fish. They often have a hooked attachment organ and they have a simple, direct life cycle. They are just visible to the naked eye. They often feed on skin and gill tissue, but usually only cause problems if found in large numbers. Gyrodactylus lives on the skin, fins and gills of many species of fish. This fluke gives birth to live young (others lay eggs). Clinical signs are "flashing" and skin problems. Treatment with formalin, Praziquantel, TrichlorofonTM (dimethyl phosphate) [an organophosphate and not real safe around people - unc.] or salt baths are effective. Formaldehyde is used as a bath for 12-24 hours at 20-25 ppm (mg/L), repeated every three days, for three treatments (same as for ich), with 30-70% water change in between treatments. [ Formalin or Formaldehyde is also a carcinogen. If you must use it, try not and touch it or breath it - unc.] Praziquantel is dosed as a bath for 3-6 hours, at 5-10 mg/L, repeated three times, with 30-70% water change between treatments. Praziquantel is now available in several commercially prepared tablets. TrichlorofonTM is used as a bath, for one hour, 0.25-1.0 ppm, repeated daily for three days, with 30-70% water change between treatments. Salt is used as a bath, as a 4-5 minute dip dosed at 30-35 g/L, repeated daily for three treatments, with a 30-70 % water change in between treatments."

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/aqua/parasites.html

I hope this is some help. Good luck and all the best!



An editorial comment: You voted no to the (none / 0) (#2)
by unclescott on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 09:08:30 AM PST

preceding log submission. Thank you for voting and actually thinking about what a log is supposed to be before submitting a yes vote. You had to read the submissions and comments with them, defining a log and a diary.

I was therefore surprised that you then submitted two almost identical log submissions where they are clearly diaries. I spent a couple of hours answering your query but felt that I still had to vote "no" on the submission. (That is sort of like when I got drafted to umpire T-ball games. At the third whiff I'd lean over and gently say something like, "I'm sorry but that's strike three." And I had probably helped adjust the hitting T to the child's swing after their first miss.)

Participation with comments is significantly down lately at Guppylog. Part of that is the summer and part of that is that a couple of key people are moving. And part of that is the use of "pleeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaasssssseeeeeee help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

But questions hidden in the log submissions are far less visible that the immediately appearing diaries. That is the most probable reason no immediate answer was forth-coming. :)

Since I took the time to proof read and correct a bit in your submissions, let me also suggest that you never use ASAP and the whiny Pleeeeeaaaaaaaaase on a forum, mailing list or other Q&A place on the net. That will drive people (by the multitude) away from your request for help. Those are rookie mistakes and I know that you will not do those things again, anywhere. ;)

All the best again!

[ Parent ]



is she in labor or dying | 2 comments (2 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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