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ammonia dilemma
By wraith, Section Diaries Posted on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:30:14 PM PST Tags: (all tags)

I had a toxic level of ammonia in my 20 gallon tank.

I am quite faithful with my every 5 day water change with seasoned water, and I vacuum the gravel well with each change, so I am unsure of what caused it.
I took all my fish out and spread them out into my 2 other 10 gallon tanks. But those tanks are to full now and I have to get them back into the 20g. I have been doing water changes every other day, and adding ammo-lock.
My dilemma is this. Can I place some of the fish back into the tank even though my levels are still reading about .25-.50?
I am only considering this for two reasons.
1. Ammo-lock supposedly changes the ammonia to it's non-toxic form, so I think that with consistent more frequent water changes, more plants in my tank, and fresh carbon in the filter, it should work itself out shortly. In the meantime, will this non/less toxic form harm my fish?
2. I am worried that if I leave my other 2 tanks overstocked for to much longer, water changes or not, I will get the same problem starting in those tanks.

Any advice?

cheers!

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ammonia dilemma | 8 comments (8 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: ammonia dilemma (none / 0) (#2)
by miskairal on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 02:57:34 AM PST

wraith something has gone awry. Is the 20 overstocked to start with - is that why you do water changes every 5 days? How much water do you change?

Possible causes of the high ammonia I can think of are

Added too many new fish at once
A death or two or 3 and the bodies left in the tank (not found/discovered)
Death of a lot of algae eg. when you get rid of green water
Overcleaning (been there, done that). Could you have been doing too much gravel vaccing and cleaned out too many good bacteria
Overstocking

Is that ammonia reading AFTER you have used the Ammo-lock? Can you do another water change on the 20 of, say, 50% before adding the fish back in? Add only a couple of fish at a time, maybe 2-3 each day or two (waiting longer would be preferable but...). Watch those fish carefully though!

I think it would be safer to leave the fish in the 10s unless the testing tells you otherwise. There's got to be a cause for the high ammonia in the 20 and it's got to be rectified. Seems odd to me that despite water changes and no fish the ammonia is still high. How long has the 20 not had fish in it for?

Ummm.... just remembered.... what happened about the plant food you bought? Is this a new problem to back then or the same one continuing?
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help

Re: ammonia dilemma (none / 0) (#3)
by wraith on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 09:35:27 AM PST

this is all part of the same problem. It all began after I treated with levamisol for camallanus. Perhaps there were to many dead worms and stuff in the tank. I have a 5g bucket that I leave to season for 5 days, then use to do a water change. So I guess thats about a 20% change as I never fully fill it. I was doing this to get rid of the worms. I was doing this every 2 days with fish in the tank when they were ill. Maybe I have cleared out to much good stuff. I will try adding water from my other 2 tanks, and some of the gravel. I will be doing another 50% change to try and get the ammonia even lower before trying to add any fish.
This reading is before adding ammo-lock.
20 has been empty for just over a week. Ammonia hit a high of 8 after fish were removed.... so it has come down a long ways.

[ Parent ]

Re: ammonia dilemma (none / 0) (#7)
by lomelindi on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 08:58:55 PM PST

I know from personal experience that, even though the medicines help the fish, they also absolutely destroy the cycle. I went through the same heartache, killing the disease but then also killing most of my fish, one by one, with the wildly teetering water quality. You almost have to wonder if it's worth it. It really is like starting over again.

Were the fish in the high-ammonia tank acting strangely? Dying, or showing split fins? If they were acting normal, I suggest putting one or two of them back in, and basically considering it to be starting over from scratch and cycling the tank again. If they'd been living in that the whole time, they may have some tolerance to it. That's how I got mine back to normal.

Good luck!

[ Parent ]

Re: ammonia dilemma (none / 0) (#4)
by miskairal on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 01:25:33 PM PST

8! It almost seems as though there is no cycle whatsoever?

Sorry wraith, I don't know what is going on and I'm wondering if maybe that tank needs stripping down and restarting. How many fish did you have in it?
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]

Re: ammonia dilemma (none / 0) (#5)
by wraith on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 05:35:03 PM PST

Well, part of it I know.
When I removed my fish, it was at 1, that is the level I am unsure of. At that time I had 2 yoyo loaches, 3 male guppies, about 25 baby fry 3-4 weeks old.
After they were all out, I thought I would try an experiment with my plants. Someone had told me to try regular soil from my garden...so I planted 2 of them in soil and put them in the tank. Over night the ammonia rose to 8. I emptied all but about an inch of water from the tank, removed the soil and started again. I think part of the reason I still have a level of about .25 now is because I didn't wash anything off, just replaced the water. With every water change it goes down a little more.
I am going to do another water change tonight, see what it is in the morning, and then possibly add a few fish in.
How often do you think I should vacum the gravel so that I don't get rid of all my good bacteria? I think when I read "change as much water as often as possible", I assumed that this was done at the same time.

[ Parent ]

Could you put a layer of gravel over the soil? (none / 0) (#6)
by unclescott on Fri Apr 14, 2006 at 07:10:24 PM PST

Usually that is done so it doesn't get into the tank. Maybe it will help prevent the soil from leaching into the aquarium.

If you have a porous pot - like the brown ceramic ones. You might even get away with sand on top. Or try a smaller quantity of top soil.

That is partly my concern with using soil: how much and where can I dig it up where it hasn't been effected by garden pesticides, herbicides or walking dogs.

Good luck and all the best!
unc

[ Parent ]

Re: Could you put a layer of gravel over the soil? (none / 0) (#8)
by wraith on Sat Apr 15, 2006 at 11:14:48 PM PST

I bought a two of those geo systems plant rocks, and they have holes in the bottom of them. I put a layer of gravel, then dirt, then gravel. Figured if it was going to raise my ammonia, I may as well do it while the fish are out of the tank and the levels are already off! The gravel didn't seem to matter. The soil did a number on my already high ammonia.
So now my ammonia is at .25, I have not had a chance to do a final water change before adding fish. Will do that tomorrow. Little busy today throwing a birthday party for my little girl who just turned one. Big day for both of us!
After that I will add a few fish, see what happens.
Thanks all for the input!

Cheers!

[ Parent ]

Re: ammonia dilemma (none / 0) (#1)
by nepenthes on Thu Apr 13, 2006 at 08:57:56 PM PST

I dont do changes that often in my tank, im sure their are the few spikes i dont notice in Stuff, but I do my changes every 2-3 weeks, My amonia is almost allways low, Maybe you dont have a fully cycled tank?

cheers

"Christianity is not a religion, yet many determine to make it a religion. Christianity is the relationship between God and man"

ammonia dilemma | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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