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Nuggets from a Plant Talk.

All Topics
By unclescott
from the aquarium beautiful department, Section News
Posted on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 12:31:39 PM PST
Last Friday (3-10-06), the Chicago killie group was privileged to have Robert Steinback, biology professor emeritus from a local community college (Elgin C.C.) do a presentation on Growing Beautiful Aquatic Plants In The Aquarium. Having just returned from his second collecting trip of the year to Florida, he was excited by what is out there. Between anecdotes on the hobby, such as his youthful visits to Beldt's aquarium in St Louis, he especially discussed the minerals needed to grow great plants.



There are places, even in western Florida, which have a mineral poor, acidic, peaty, black water, not too different from that north of the Amazon. Like that of the Rio Negro, there are virtually no aquatic plants growing in it. The waters need to be somewhat close to neutral or a bit alkaline (like "guppy water") for significant absorption of minerals to take place. Yet, interestingly, the substrate needs to have anaerobic sections (where bacteria operate without oxygen), so that certain minerals will be in a form, which can be easily used. (The tendency of undergravel filters to pull oxygenated water through all of the gravel, according to Steinback, is why plants in such a tank do not thrive and often die off, discouraging the aquarist from continuing in the hobby.)

Bob also intrigued the audience by producing pots and trays of plants, which wondrously appeared from the side of the table he was speaking from. Out of the three large plastic carrying cases (in the 40-gallon range), he produced a continuing stream of examples of what can be grown in aquaria. One of the more impressive was the Jungle Valesneria, with it's leaves six feet/ 183 cm long and almost an inch / 2.5 cm wide. It's surface was so durable, he noted that no pond snails would be able to eat holes in it and no algae (not even brush or hair algae) would be able to settle on it. A big part of that resistance to those pests is in the proper diet and lighting of that (or any) aquatic plant.

When considering what the proper way of feeding plants was, he suggested that for rooted plants, it must be through the substrate (or the material in the tank bottom). If the aquarist just pours fertilizer into the water (especially nitrogen and phosphorus), the plants, which can best utilize that, are those without roots. Significant among them will be the various algae species.

Appropriate levels of Potassium, by contrast, will encourage algae to die. Along with the carbohydrates produced by photosynthesis, it is also an essential ingredient in the formation of ammonio acids, proteins and DNA.

He noted that rocks and gravel were not appropriate for growing plants. Soil, from the back yard, soaked for over a day, so the junk could float off and be removed, contains all of the necessary minerals needed by aquarium plants. It was observed that the soils of the Midwestern United States, at least those not paved over, are among the finest agricultural soils in the world. ("Can you dig it?") Obviously that stuff may need to be held down and Robert was a great proponent of growing plants in the plastic pots one buys larger plants in at the garden center. A layer of gravel over the top keeps the soil inside.

Potting soils, by the way, according to him are too over refined. They pack so tightly that few biological processes can take place in the spaces between the dirt particles. And one gets that perlite all over the top of the tank. ;)

In his parade of samples, he also brought around smaller plastic plant holders. Often in these 3" by 6" by 1.5" / 7.6 cm/ 15 cm/ 3.8 cm trays were two examples of the same species of plant. One set was clearly less healthy than the other. The variable was the iron content in the soil. Iron takes different forms. The iron in the anaerobic conditions of the mud is the most easily absorbed by the plants.

He reproduced the photo of a magnificent aquarium (which had to be several 100 gallons and longer than any three tanks I have ever had) which was luxuriously planted. He suggested that all of those plants were set in pots and appropriately arranged.

He observed that when the New York residents, who migrated to Florida in the 1920s, '30s and '40s to Florida to set up fish farms and establish their ponds, they discovered that plants thrived and fish grew larger in a pond into which a set of iron bed springs had been dumped. (Someone else noted that home aquarists of the same period noticed that when a plain old nail was accidentally dropped into an aquarium and forgotten, that those plants flourished.)

Iron, of course, is needed by the fish to form hemoglobin. For the plants, iron is needed to make chlorophyll. Neither grew as well - or as large - without adequate iron.

If one can not get usable iron in any other way, commercially available chelated iron will work.  The aquarist should apply it at one drop (from an eyedropper) per gallon in setting up and when doing water changes.

A member of the Chicago Aquatic Gardening Association observed that it seemed like most of the things he was doing to grow lush plants (using the fancy substrate additives and fertilizers) were wrong, according to Prof. Steinback. Bob smiled and took the conversation to the addition of carbon dioxide. Here they heartily agreed - either a lot of fishes in a tank or a CO2 dispenser was recommended. Commercial sources were also mentioned (though I don't have them at hand.) Someplace in Genoa, IL was quite reasonable.

Ah, here's a card for Maccarb, a restaurant and industrial gas supply place. They also have offices in Chicago, Madison and Milwaukee. 877-427-2499 or david@maccarb.com
See also http://listings.allpages.com/il-0107873454-genoa.html

16 hours of light was also suggested as essential. That is assuming at least a couple watts per gallon of water.

Robert also noticed that calcium rich well water is the bane of aquarists wanting to raise plants. Especially when mixed with carbon dioxide, the calcium carbonate, in the water, will form a sheath of calcium bicarbonate on the plants and they will dwindle or die. (Hornwort is something of an exception). The only way to combat too high a mineral level is to dilute it with R.O., DI, very expensive distilled or rainwater (off of a seasoned roof after about 20-30 minutes of rain).

Another way to kill plants is to have just too much "stuff" in it. Bob pulled out a really fancy TDS meter and asked us how many had kept water hyacinth through the winter. Very few raised their hands. He noted how easy it is to let some of the water evaporate in the winter (this sounded a lot like that little "winter mystery death" blurb on fish deaths). Even a vigorous grower like water hyacinth, will just brown with too many ions in the water.

Robert lit up when he saw the large chalkboard across the front of the room (we meet at the College of DuPage). He ran a number of chemical relationships and formulae across it. They made a lot more sense there than in my notes.

We learned then, among other things, that to grow plants, aquarium water, without too much calcium, at a fairly neutral pH, was good. Too many fish wastes were often very bad. Gravel and U.G. filtration do not give our plants the best of habitats. Phosphorous and iron are necessary for plant and fish health. Regular garden soil (without supplements) is about the best we can have to root plants in.

By the way, if plants began to turn white, it is time to repot them since the iron in the soil has been used up. (Much of this will sound more than a bit like Diana Walstad's Ecology of the Planted Aquarium: A Practical Manual and Scientific Treatise for the Home Aquarist. I'm gathering that both parties have done their homework and practical research, and while drawing from similar sources and research sometimes, they have arrived at their own conclusions.)

There were a couple of observations on guppies, perhaps of interest here.

Years ago, Bob arranged for a pond to be built into the hall of the Elgin Community College biology department. It is about 12 feet by 18 feet long by 18 inches deep. The plant growth is luxuriant and varied, assuming water changes are made. Lots of guppies and the Mozambique tilapia thrive in there. The tilapia feed on most of the algae.

I was curious too. (Hope this is correct.) 144 inches by 216 inches by 18 inches will yield 559872 cubic inches, which can be divided by  231 to give us over 2400 gallons of pond in that floor. (Been there, seen that; marveled at it; glad I didn't have to change the water.)

Hundreds of students hurry by that pond each day. They shed extra body cells. Traffic stirs them up into the air. Those cells are popularly known as dust. As the dust settles on the water, surface bacteria and algae interact with those organic goodies to form that white surface skin some of us have seen on fairly still aquaria. The guppies for their part, when not chasing down some of the softer algae, nibble on that surface scum.

Interesting system! ;)

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Nuggets from a Plant Talk. | 11 comments (10 topical, 0 hidden)
Re: Nuggets from a Plant Talk. (none / 0) (#11)
by Haanu on Tue Nov 07, 2006 at 03:12:12 AM PST

That is definitely full of insight. Thank you for writing about Robert Steinback&#8217;s presentation on Growing Beautiful Aquatic Plants In The Aquarium. I am so sure that many are relieved to read about this and are enlightened as to the questions they have about aquatic plants. I hope to read more writings like this in this website. I really appreciate the knowledge shared.



Re: Nuggets from a Plant Talk. (none / 1) (#6)
by eds on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 08:18:33 AM PST

Just to flesh out the Prof's comments about overwintering pond plants, I understood him to say the problem arose when folks just added water to replace what had evaporated, instead of draining and replacing all or most of the water.  If one simply replaces what evaporated, the ion levels in the water eventually get too high.

I'm going to have to do more research on feeding plants, as I was under the impression that many plants, such as ludwigias, derived nutrients from the water column.  Of course, I dose my water and my stem plants develop "aerial" roots, which were absent from the Prof's specimens.

Hard to argue with his results, tho, as he certainly raised beautiful and healthy plants.  Just proves there are multiple ways to skin a cat(fish?).  Maybe I'll have to tell my spouse that I need a new and larger tank to try out soil as a substrate...



shed extra body cells..nibble on that surface scum (none / 0) (#1)
by angelhologram on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 05:03:22 PM PST

So basically the guppies are eating people. The words "Soilent Green" come to mind.
*BEFORE you buy fish make sure you understand what "Cycling" a tank means <- quoted from miskaral* ~Trying to make a difference one fish at a time~


Puts a whole new spin on, (none / 0) (#2)
by unclescott on Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 05:34:16 PM PST

"Look who's coming to dinner."

Because of this exchange of material and molecules around the world, someone once suggested that every living person has a molecule in them that was once in Julius Caesar. If so, I don't even want to speculate as to what part of him my molecule(s) came from!

All the best!
unc
Who's humming, It's a small world after all. ;)

[ Parent ]



Re: Puts a whole new spin on, (none / 0) (#3)
by miskairal on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 12:10:12 AM PST

I was about to have dinner you pair ;)

I doubt I'd want to use our garden soil. What's not goat poo is rock with very little in the way of nutrients. I think Australia has some of the poorest soils in the world.
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Re: Puts a whole new spin on, (none / 0) (#4)
by angelhologram on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 09:52:19 AM PST

I've got sand with a little bit of sediment on top. If you breath too hard the sediment blows away.
Thanks Unc, I wasn't thinking about it until you mentioned it and now it's stuck in my head.....there's so much that we share that it's time we're aware....grrr
*BEFORE you buy fish make sure you understand what "Cycling" a tank means <- quoted from miskaral* ~Trying to make a difference one fish at a time~
[ Parent ]


I could always ship out some top soil. (none / 1) (#7)
by unclescott on Thu Mar 16, 2006 at 09:16:26 AM PST

Hope the neighbors don't mind a hole in their yard. ;)

Actually bought a square yard of top soil last summer to fill in a couple low spots. (There was more to wheelbarreling it than I had hoped.) I worry about that stuff coming in from construction projects with left over farm herbicides and what have you. Got some interesting weeds growing from under the tarp too.

ATB!
unc

[ Parent ]



Re: I could always ship out some top soil. (none / 0) (#8)
by no1likeme1414 on Mon Mar 20, 2006 at 06:21:06 PM PST

Hmmm.  I have often wondered about all of this ... great report, Uncle Scott!

I am going to get some plastic pots and some soil from out in the wilderness around L.A. ;)

I wonder, if you let it soak for a few days, presumably that would leach out any bad stuff that might throw off Ph?  Would it be better/safer to simply leave plants in the gravel but to stick an iron nail in there for the mineral content?  Hmm.  Must ... try ... everything.

My wife will kill me if I roll in with another tank.

[ Parent ]



Re: I could always ship out some top soil. (none / 0) (#9)
by angelhologram on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 06:26:11 PM PST

Please keep us updated on your findings!
*BEFORE you buy fish make sure you understand what "Cycling" a tank means <- quoted from miskaral* ~Trying to make a difference one fish at a time~
[ Parent ]


It is easy to get sedimental about this. ;) (none / 0) (#5)
by unclescott on Wed Mar 15, 2006 at 11:58:27 AM PST



[ Parent ]


Nuggets from a Plant Talk. | 11 comments (10 topical, 0 hidden)
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