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Blocked birth canal??

Health and Medicine
By aurorahorse
from the aurorahorse department, Section Ask Guppylog
Posted on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 12:33:33 PM PST
Tags: (all tags)
I'm new, so I hope I am doing this in the right section!:)



Okay...here are the stats:

1) 55 gallon tank

2) Weekly 20-25% water changes

3) Two internal hanging filters plus one powerhead (everytime turn it off, fish claim they miss bubbles;))

4) Population: 1. One apple snail. 2. Twelve platies (one removed for possible disease at moment--not sure) 3. Four guppies (one removed for possible disease at moment--not sure). 4. Assortment of babies...heavily planted so not sure how many.;) NOTE: The 2 that are removed for possible disease--one is new and just doesn't look right; can't explain. The platy may have some sort of fungus...isolating to watch (or may be discoloration). When I change the water today, I will remove the carbon and treat the whole tank.

5) Tank has been established for 14-15 months now.

Okay, the guppy in question is living in the 55 gallon now. I bought her in November or December..she was full grown at the time. She has LARGE pregnancies. This time, I'm worried....it looks as though part of her insides have swollen out to her birth canal and are blocking it. It's not parasites...at least it's not stringy (BTDT). I've never noticed this before....

I have a smaller and younger guppy that looks just like her and checked her (she's not pregnant or just barely), and she isn't that way...

I can't explain it well...here are some links to pictures. She is still relatively active but starting to slow down and is wiggling and started to go to the back, so I think she is ready to have her babies. Oddly enough, her mate is leaving her alone (he ONLY chases her). I just am worried if that is a blockage. Or maybe I have just never noticed it right before birth.

Here is an idea how pregnant she is:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/aurorahorse/verypregnant.jpg

Here is the best pic I can get of her up close with her belly...see that little white spot going from left part of abdomen to birth canal (in front of anal fin)? It almost seems to be bocking the canal.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y244/aurorahorse/tiredandpregnant.jpg

Thanks!
Dawn

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Blocked birth canal?? | 19 comments (19 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#18)
by aurorahorse on Tue Mar 07, 2006 at 07:28:55 AM PST

wow...looks like some people responded while I was gone...:)

Thanks for well wishes...mom' surgery went well. And so far, everyone seems to have survived well in the tank...got light on and letting them come out to say hi so I can do an official count.:)

Far as breeding traps...I don't use them myself. I hate them. I'm of the leave-them-in-the-tank and let-Darwin-go course...mainly because I don't have the time and resources to do it with separating. But as US said, there is no wrong or right way.:)

Either way, been treating and no one else has come up sick so far!

Dawn



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#17)
by risinglucifer on Mon Mar 06, 2006 at 03:06:28 AM PST

I'm sorry to hear that. I'm hoping it's not something serious. Hopefully, it's her first pregnancy and thus the stress. Everything's gonna be ok, I hope. And good luck with your mum's surgery. I'm sure the fishes would be okay while you're away.
MUCH MORE MUSIC


Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#15)
by bendictpaul on Sat Mar 04, 2006 at 04:53:41 AM PST

I am rather confused by this box of death issue. Is it good to have the box or is it not? I suppose the death is caused by inappropriate usage of the box? And sure it did sounds kind of stress for the little ones to be in such a environment.
Just Let Go


Which breeding box is a good question, (none / 0) (#16)
by unclescott on Sat Mar 04, 2006 at 09:00:51 AM PST

though I was a bit surprised to see it here. :) Thank you for asking for a clarification. If you wondered about that, probably a lot of other visitors and new Guppylog members have had that questions too.

But you got me re-reading aurora's log a couple of times. Got a second cupa coffee and looked again. Still nothing on breeding traps. ;)

If you have browsed my A Better Guppy Trap in the Immediate Help section on breeding, you get a felling for my preferences for pregnant livebearer females - evacuate everyone else, feed her well (if she isn't bloated) so her hunger will not lead her to dine on fry. Lots of plants offer hiding places. (Actually lots of floating plants like water sprite and bottom thickets of Najas and/or Java moss are an almost unbeatable combination. I was naturally really pleased to see what aurorahorse was doing with planted 55-gallon tanks.

And there are different schools of though here too. On the old livebearer's mailing list, I provoked an, ahem, spirited response from Detroit area livebearer guru, James Langhammer. The discussion wasn't on guppies but wild-type livebearers. I was recommending removing females (of a species famous for their cannibalism) after dropping fry. Jim felt very strongly, using 20-gallon to very big tanks, that wild type livebearers were best served by being bred in colonies, with lots of shelter, hiding places and food.

Mine at the time was a very busy work schedule, which meant that feeding was by fits and starts and the said aquarium was only a well planted 15-gallon. Neither of us are right or wrong. Both systems have to do with the time, space and energy (both mechanical and personal) available to the aquarist.

The plastic "box o' death" which we take turns beating up on in the IH log of the same name, is a 3" x 3" x 6" (7.6cm x 7.6cm x 15.24 cm) completely enclosed floating plastic box with no flow in or out of the main tank. A result of this is that the female may panic and suffocate as the material she regurgitates or passes, fouls the water. Another draw back is that she may go into shock when closely confined. Lastly guppy fry statistically go up more often than down through that little v in the bottom of some of those traps - leaving them right in front of mama.

If there is a top light, guppy fry may be especially inclined to go to the surface. That can work against us and the fry or for us. For instance newly hatched baby brine shrimp are also phototropic and so they and the hungry fry meet at the surface area of the aquarium, under the light.

About a year ago, TFH published an article by a young man (that is not a criticism, I think research from a person, who at the time was probably an eighth grader or high school freshman is terrific) which observed where newborn fry went. Using drum bowls, he noticed that fry immediately moved to a different level of the bowl than the level the adult(s) was/were at. Scott Lockwood's theorem of fry avoidance is that the adults eat the malformed and stupid ones who stay around and make themselves vulnerable to predation. :0

Breeding nets still have their limitations, but allow females, fry or wounded fish the beneficial water flow and other benefits of a larger aquarium. There are evidentially plastic gismos now-a-days which also allow flow through currents. I would still avoid those plastic gizmos, but if we have limited space, they might be useful. A person may feel, "Better five fry than none."

The thing to remember about containers hanging on the tank side is that guppies - and especially very pregnant guppies - are not single Bettas. And for the record, almost no one would try to breed Bettas in a tank smaller than 10-gallons/ 39 L, even though, with lots of shelter for the female, it can be done in a five. (But it is a dickens getting the female out without messing up the nest.)

Behaviorally, virtually all fish have (obviously) evolved to need more space than we provide them in aquariums.  During stressful times of pregnancy, quarantine or illness, in an effort to give them a place of their own, we usually put them in less space. In a more perfect (and more affluent) world, we would give them MORE space in those circumstances. :)

All the best!
uncle scott

[ Parent ]



Re: Which breeding box is a good question, (none / 0) (#19)
by bendictpaul on Fri Mar 17, 2006 at 10:35:38 PM PST

Wow, thank you for such a great response!
Just Let Go
[ Parent ]


Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#14)
by bendictpaul on Sat Mar 04, 2006 at 04:52:25 AM PST

I hope the surgery goes well. It's wise to not treat the tank, else you wouldn't know what happened exactly. Perhsps you could get someone to look after them like once or twice a day. And to report the progress to you. I hope she'll miracly gets better.
Just Let Go


Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#7)
by aurorahorse on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 09:18:49 PM PST

sorry...I like talking to myself.:)

<sighs> I euthanized her....I am positive it was some kind of worm. Poor girl. I am leaving to go out of town in a few days to help my mom with surgery and will be gone 5-6 days, so I was afraid if I treated the tank with her and the worm in it, then it would spread and I wouldn't be there to monitor. I'm going to the LFS tomorrow to get some meds to treat all the tanks...I hope 5 days of treatment will help prevent anyone else getting them. I am pretty sure it was a tapeworm or Capillara (found the Fecal Disorders webpage--pretty cool!). Hopefully, I can figure out the best meds. I wonder if she just got it from the stress of such a large pregnancy.

Dawn



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#8)
by miskairal on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 12:51:31 AM PST

Sorry to hear that and it's ok to talk to yourself here :)

It is so difficult to make a decision when you know you aren't going to be around for a bit. I'm going away tomorrow morning and won't be back until the evening after that and just told hubby to remove any dead fish. Sounds sick but I've had a few guppies dying lately. I sure hope it is none of my saltwater collection as I know way less about them yet. If I'm only gone a couple of days I don't let anyone feed the fish but more than 2 nights and I get someone to feed them as well. See I'm straying off your topic here :))

I was going to also add that I believe brine shrimp are not high in protein. A figure of 4% protein rings a bell. I think that bloodworms and blackworms are much higher.

Hope your Mum's surgery goes well!

After previewing...
Hey I just discovered that adding a * to each end of a word makes it appear bold. I bet I forget by the next time I want to draw attention to a word, I did it by accident this time :)
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#9)
by angelhologram on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 08:29:27 AM PST

I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of a favorate fish, I personally stopped naming mine bacause it seemes to have been a death sentence for them. I'm sure most of us can sympathize with you. I myself have also talked to myself on here many times. I enter *most of my fry drops as I'm really bad about losing paper that I write things on but the computer is a little bulky to be so easily misplaced. Welcome to GuppyLog I'm just sorry it had to be in bad circumstances.
*BEFORE you buy fish make sure you understand what "Cycling" a tank means <- quoted from miskaral* ~Trying to make a difference one fish at a time~
[ Parent ]


Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#10)
by aurorahorse on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 01:53:59 PM PST

Thanks! I got some medicine-embedded food that has Praziquantel in it so that should help the others...I just hope her mate is okay too. He never would chase another fish. The tank seems emptier. I stopped naming mine long ago just mainly because I lost track, but I still keep track of the ones that have different markings and like to watch their personalities. Nice to know there are people who understand being upset at losing fish!

Dawn

[ Parent ]



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#11)
by Jaymi on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 03:59:49 PM PST

I lost a betta this morning that I was pretty attached to, so I know how you feel.

She was the only one of my fish that preffered a ride in my hand over a ride in the net. All I had to do was put my hand in the tank and she would swim right into it.

Mine had a spinal deformity that was getting worse with age. I think it may have caused some internal injuries that killed her. :(

[ Parent ]



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#13)
by miskairal on Mon Feb 27, 2006 at 11:39:39 PM PST

Oh Jaymi, how sad and how unique! I don't suppose you ever managed to capture that on video, it would be neat to watch.

As with all our pets it is horrid to lose them but I just focus on the fact I did all I could for that animal and gave it as happy and comfortable a life as I know how.
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#12)
by aurorahorse on Sun Feb 26, 2006 at 04:14:52 PM PST

awwww I'm so sorry! The guppy that I lost liked to eat out of my fingers...that's pretty cool about your Betta. Never heard of that.:(

Dawn

[ Parent ]



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#6)
by aurorahorse on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 08:41:57 PM PST

And since someone will want to know...the medication-embedded food I was told would help prevent internal parasites has Nitrofurazone 1%



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#5)
by aurorahorse on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 08:39:21 PM PST

I hope someone is still reading this!!

SOMETHING is coming out. It's not a baby. I can't tell if poop or worm, and it's scaring me. I looked at most posts about the "C" parasite (can't remember spelling), and I don't *think* it's that because whatever it is, it's white. Any kind of white internal worms? I'm trying to find pics but not much success. I'm pretty sure not a fry...because it doesn't look like the form of one and, again, it's white. Great...I had been feeding them food that is imbedded with parasite medication, so I thought that it would help.

Dawn



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#2)
by Alisa on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 05:30:30 PM PST

I had this happen last month.  Nodules that were most likely inner body "parts" or fluid coming from the back end, hiding by the heater, swimming with a lowered tail.  She was getting increasingly listless.  She was also incredibly pregnant, the biggest I've ever seen a guppy female, and had passed her due date a week beforehand.  I had used the ice water method of euthanasia, but then I couldn't help thinking of the fry that might still be alive inside so I fished her out and ... made sure she wasn't going to come back to life (as she was only in the ice water unconscious for a few moments).  Then, pushing out what was in her abdomen, I found several unmoving fry.  Thinking they might be dead or chilled to death, I gave them a chance by dipping them on my fingertip into the water.  Amazingly enough, they "unpopped" from their circular position and "rested" like they do after being just born.  They're still alive in my fry partition of my tank.  So it is possible to rescue the fry, albeit it's rather gory.  



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#3)
by aurorahorse on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 06:02:56 PM PST

Thanks. I don't think I could do that...<sighs> I just don't have the stomach for it. Honestly, I don't care so much if the fry live...I'd rather have the mom. I like to raise them, but I just let them go in the 55 gallon with lots of plants and let nature take its course. This female has been through a lot...survived from my overstocking tank a few times (thought I was okay since it was established), so she's rather special.

Funny enough, she is moving around more now...though shakily. But still as active as normal last hour or two. I don't want her to suffer...but I wonder if I should wait and see? Though I remember having this happen years ago and the female dying. Poor girl.:(

[ Parent ]



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 0) (#1)
by miskairal on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 01:38:35 PM PST

Welcome to guppylog Dawn.

Sorry I can't help you but I've just got to say this is a great entry, with plenty of background info - congratulations!!

Judging by what I have read here over the years it seems that guppies infrequently have trouble giving birth and seems to be related to the size of the fry or the number of fry that the fish has given birth to in the past and therefore the number she is probably trying to give birth to now. I suspect it is important not to everfeed her in that last week of pregnancy so the fry don't get too big. When I say overfeed, it's not so much the volume of food but the type and quality. I'd go so far as to only feed flake food and see what happens.

DJIsaac and, I think, angelhologram as well have managed to get living fry out of a guppy that has just died.

Cheerio and good luck
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help



Re: Blocked birth canal?? (none / 1) (#4)
by aurorahorse on Sat Feb 25, 2006 at 06:14:50 PM PST

Thanks for compliment...I did some reading around first and realized ya'll would ask questions.;)

Whoops...I fed brine shrimp pellets tonight, thinking protein would help. I wish my other 2 tanks weren't taken up (Betta and platy in one and 2 sick fish in other), or I'd move her. That way, I could control feeding more. I am considering moving her to 5 gallon with Betta and platy anyway (the Betta just sits in a corner, and the platy is bored to death, but she has a warped fin so can't handle high currents). I dont' know..I HATE losing a fish, especially when I've had her for so long.

Thanks to both for your help though!

Dawn

[ Parent ]



Blocked birth canal?? | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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