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Normal Guppies or Guppy/Endler's LB mix?

Guppies
By name les
from the Les department, Section Ask Guppylog
Posted on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 12:14:26 PM PST
Tags: (all tags)
Hi.  I'm a newbie and a novice at fish care so I could use some advice <g>.  I never intended on keeping fish... It all started when my 9 yr old daughter asked if we could set up an old 10 gal aquarium (I <I>knew</I> I should've thrown that out :) in her 4th grade classroom and fill it with fish.  After talking her out of various types of sharks, we settled on guppies.



  We now have two groups of guppy fry that don't seem to be developing in the same way or at the same rate so we're wondering if the first group of fry could be a guppy/Endler's mix.

One of the first guppies that we bought was a very pretty yellow/gold female with a bright orange tail fin, all other fins were clear.  Since it was soon evident that she was pregnant, we bought another 10 gal tank for home.  <sigh>  The fry were born Nov 24, 2004.  The fry (or are they juveniles now?) are about 12.5 weeks old.  The momma fish was large and had about 30 fry.  The fry were tiny dots.  Several days later, the fry were large enough that we could see that they were a pinkish/peach color.  Eighteen are still alive - 4 females, 13 males, and a little mutant.  The larger males started showing color about 2.5 wks ago.  Now 12 males are very colorful (the smallest male is developing a yellow tint on the bottom of his caudal fin) and have very similar coloration and seem to be getting their color in the same order.

First the bottom of the caudal fin turned yellow, then the top of it turned bright orange/red (the middle part being clear), at about the same time orange/red patches appeared on the body, then a black crescent on either side of the tummy (a bit forward of the gravid spot in females) that changes size (crescent, small spot, or disappears altogether), then thin brown lines developed starting behind each eye and extending to the dorsal, the dorsal fins all have some black on them mixed with either orange or yellow, and in the last couple of days they are more iridescent -with their sides looking sometimes green or blue.  A couple of them appear to be developing purple or blue on their body (peduncle) at the base of the caudal fin.  The parts of their bodies that aren't vividly colored are copper and the pectorals are clear.  The caudal fins are more triangular than fan shaped.  The females are large and copper colored with a bit of a light blue tint on all fins (OK I can't really see the pectorals, they could be clear :).  

The reason we thought the first lot of fry might be a guppy/Endler's mix is the black crescent (we've seen the same marking on pix of Endler's but not on any guppies) and vivid orange patches.  Sadly, the pretty momma fish died.

We rescued another very plain, very pregnant female from Wal-Mart.  Her fry were born the next day Jan 10, 2005.  They will be 5 wks on Feb 21st.  Anyway, this female was very small, not much bigger than the 7 wk old female fry.  She had 12 fry and they were huge compared to the first lot of fry.  Right away we could see that they were silver and black.  They grew very rapidly.  The males are now the same size as the smallest male from the first lot of fry.  About 2 weeks ago the <B>whole</B> tail fin on the larger males started to become very lightly colored (blue or yellow). Some have black streaks in their dorsal fins and pectorals.  The 2 females are a bit bigger than the males (in the first lot, the females are still almost double the size of the males) and are still silver and  black.

The 9 males were moved a few days ago from a 2.5 gal to the 10 gal with the older male fry.  The 6 females are in the 2.5 gal (we're looking for a bigger tank).

The second lot of fry have probably had better quality water and food (we're still learning) than the first lot.  But I'm not certain that that can account for the differences in growth and color. Any ideas are appreciated. Ta.

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Normal Guppies or Guppy/Endler's LB mix? | 2 comments (2 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Normal Guppies or Guppy/Endler's LB mix? (none / 0) (#1)
by FancyGuppyGuy on Sun Feb 20, 2005 at 05:41:00 PM PST

Really hard to say it maybe a wild feeder type type guppie mixed in there or endler.  

With the way people are mixed guppies with endlers you never really know what you have unless you buy it from a breeder that has had his stock for awhile and has kept them from mixing.

I think in the years ahead it will get harder and harder to get true bred endlers.
I LOVE GUPPIES!!



Don't know if the following will help you ID (none / 0) (#2)
by unclescott on Tue Feb 22, 2005 at 11:19:39 AM PST

your fish, Les. I'm not good at visualizing even your good description of your fish. Wild guppies may indeed have a fair amount of orange though, depending upon the population. You raise some intriguing questions about a guppy/Endler's cross.

Were the fry of different sizes? I would be hard pressed to tell differences between Endler's fry and those of "wild-type" guppies. Domestic strains of guppies may drop relatively larger fry.

I applaud you for helping out with your daughter's 4th grade class. (I think I was encouraged to bring turtles, crayfish and other critters to my 4th grade class by a truly remarkable lady.) Hope the fry don't get out of hand. Also hope that the Quicklinks and recent discussions are useful to you.

What part of the country (in a general sense) do you hail from? It is a long shot, but there might be livebearer nuts in your region who could help ID those fish.

In the meantime, for your entertainment and edification, here are a few sites and images which may be of use:

That Newcomb site has a lot of neat info on the Endler's. Since much of that was written, Armando Poul has returned to the lagoons where those fish have been collected. He related his experiences and thoughts in a terrific article a few months back in TFH. Naturally I can't find that article at the moment.

http://members.cox.net/newcomb1/

Somewhere Jbo has some other neat Endler's shots than just at the www.fishiezoo.com site.

I wonder if Scott Lockwood has shots of that strain I sent his way. I can't even remember the name he and others identified it as (other than that old "peas in the pod strain" which was probably from Endler's original collect, which suffered from a founder effect and became just one morph. Peacock strain?

Feral guppies in Hawaii, not exactly like the originals:

http://www.hawaii.gov/dlnr/dar/streams/stream_aliens.htm

Some other looks:

http://www.aquarian.com/cgi-bin/trans.pl/fr/expertise/articles/amazing_guppy01.shtml

http://www.guppy-fish.com/history.html

Shots of preserved male guppies from stream with small and large predators:

http://www.micro.utexas.edu/courses/levin/bio304/popgen/nat.selection.html

A note from a genetic researcher:

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~guppy/people/srussell.shtml

All the best!
uncle scott
who had forgotten that his daughter also had a guppy tank at about the same age.

[ Parent ]



Normal Guppies or Guppy/Endler's LB mix? | 2 comments (2 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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