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Spinal Problem

Diary
By xavierlim81
from the Jeanxavier department, Section Ask Guppylog
Posted on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 12:15:27 PM PST
Tags: (all tags)
I wonder if they are all due to the same cause but this is not another of those hunchback spinal problems.



I believe that if you've been following Guppylog for sometime, you'd have known that I just had some fry (joy). However after about 2 weeks, I encountered a strange problem. The spines of several of them are bent upwards instead of downwards, which people described as hunchback.

Firstly, the fry can be seen that its spine is bent upwards a little. Then after a few days it is more obvious, the spine bent upwards in about a 30% angle. After another 2 days or so, the fry starts to swim unsteadily, sometimes even underside. Lastly, the fry will not even swim normally anymore. It just stays overturned and swims overturned. My friend described it as comical but I am just feeling so hurt. I know there is little chance that this fry will survive as it cannot even get any food and thus I culled it the moral way. (Not by flushing it down the toilet :P)

I thought my worse nightmare is over when now, I observe that 2 more fry are now in that same condition. I've ruled out inheritance as the mother is healthy with no physical defects, and that not all the fry from the same batch are like that.

I've read somewhere that this happens because of lack of Vitamin C. The fry have been feeding on TetraMin baby food and some frozen bbs occasionally. Could vitamin C really be the culprit? If so what can I do to change that before it affects all my other fry. Add some orange juice? :P

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Spinal Problem | 4 comments (4 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
(Comment Deleted) (none / 0) (#4)
by sz0755 on Thu Sep 29, 2005 at 09:44:24 PM PST

This comment has been deleted by unclescott





You may be closer than you think (none / 2) (#1)
by unclescott on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 08:09:29 AM PST

with that joke about orange juice! :)

It might be possible to add a bit of a liquid children's vitamin mix, very carefully, to flake food. After the vitamins are dry, crumble the flakes up and feed them to the fry. A lot of paste food recipes suggest adding those vitamins when that concoction is cooling. (Heat destroys them.)

Depending upon where you live and your student budget, there are also vitamins sold to be added to a fish tank. I don't know how well fish absorb them. Feed that flake dust from the side of your food container to the fry along with what you are using.

Vitamins tend to spoil or lose their effectiveness in older flake foods. That is why some aquarists will leave their big can of flakes in the freezer and keep a week's worth in a tightly sealed container near the fish. (I try to feed from no more than two cans and finishing them (a regular flake food and a spirulina food) before opening another, even if it is a sample.

This is easier to say than to do, but feeding a variety of flake foods will help. If a few live foods or frozen foods can be added to the mix, so much the better. Adult brine shrimp by the way, are useful, but almost any other frozen or live food is actually better for your fish in that it will have more food value. Killies fed exclusively on brine shrimp (even the newly hatched nauplii) have been known to develop diet deficiencies.

If you have access to live daphnia, which might have been feeding on a number of mineral and vitamin rich foods, they might help. Most aquarists who keep a few fish in a tub in the backyard over the summer are amazed by the color and health of their fish by the end of that time. The assumption is that sun and live food make a huge difference.

Please don't get yourself in trouble, but can you find mosquito egg rafts? (Are you in an area which is currently warm?) Adult mosquitoes and just hatched baby mosquitoes are wonderful food for appropriately sized guppies. I have placed a mosquito egg raft in a fry tank and left for the weekend. As the 75 to 200 baby mosquitoes hatched out (from that one small egg raft which looks like a piece of charcoal scratched out by one's fingernail), the fry grazed on them.

See http://www.lawestvector.org/mosquitobiology.htm

Maybe a little sun on the tank for an hour a day (if it doesn't warm up the tank very much), a chance to nibble at green algae (which I hate in a tank, but I don't make the rules of nature for the fish), as much variety in their diet as you can and even more water changes will also help.

It is remotely possible that the condition is hereditary. The mother could have one gene for lordosis or socliosis which is masked by the other dominant gene. If her mate (a brother?) also carries that gene combination, you could expect trouble and 1/4 of the fry (if it was a simple one gene cause) to develop that condition. There is not much you can do except mix up your breeders to avoid inbreeding.

Another cause of skeletal deformities is fish tuberculosis. Mycobacterium multiply in dirty tanks and cause Mycobacteriosis or fish TB. Greater cleanliness in the aquarium (and the store's tank although there is not too much we can do there) may help prevent this malady.

Hopefully these last two issues are not behind the problems you fry are facing. Try mixing their diet a little more.

Good luck and all the best!
uncle scott



Re: Thank you yet once again.. (none / 0) (#2)
by xavierlim81 on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 11:55:43 AM PST

unclescott! Your observations is greatly appreciated. I am not sure how the children's vitamin mix will dry up when mixed together with the flakes but will give it a go when I buy one on my next visit to town. Are you referring to those liquid-type vitamin mix or?

I'm not sure though, where I can find mosquito egg rafts in my area but the weather here is definately cold. I'm currently in Manchester, UK. A little sun everyday to get some algae would be a nicer idea, eventhough it is difficult to clean them off a plastic container.

Now 2 of my frys looks like the NIKE icon.. sighs

[ Parent ]



Yes, I was referring to the children's liquid (none / 1) (#3)
by unclescott on Fri Jan 14, 2005 at 02:04:52 PM PST

vitamins. Maybe a soak with those aquatic vitamines would be better.

I also wonder, a lot of the flakes are vitamin enriched. Maybe the variety would be good.

Do shops where you are sell Daphnia? I know some European and Asian shops do. That puts them way ahead of American shops who haven't done that in 50 years. One could feed spirulina meal or HUFAs to them too (gut loading). I gather one could gut load brine shrimp about two hours before feeding.

That all sounds like a lot of work if one can just feed a variety of flake and frozen foods though.

Another thought: how much mineral is in your water? If it is really soft and low in GH, maybe the addition of a teaspoon for every couple gallons of cichlid salt (really mostly calcium, maganese and some trace elements) might be helpful.

I feel like I'm suggesting you spend your money willy-nilly and that is not the plan. If you have a local aquarium club not far from you, they might have access to some of these things less expensively.

I hope your finances are far better than mine were back in my college days (when we walked five miles to school, barefoot through snapping wolverines, uphill both ways, enduring tornados and withering heat and arctic cold, and under burning hail.) It was over a decade before I could bring myself to eat maccaroni and cheese or peanutbutter and jelly sandwitches. Too much surviving on them while catering to the purple snakeskin guppies on the dining room table and doing whatever grinds did. ;)

All the best!
u.s.

[ Parent ]



Spinal Problem | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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