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Front Page · Everything · News · Ask Guppylog · Diaries
Endler's of a Different Color

Breeders
By unclescott
from the the Mutant Endler's Department department, Section Ask Guppylog
Posted on Tue Apr 27, 2004 at 04:50:25 AM PST
Guppybreeder3313's recent diary about albino guppies gave me pause to consider what I would like to do with a strain of Endler's livebearers which seems to have a tendency to throw a lot of color sports (or if you aren't entirely comfortable with them, mutants.) Maybe the question is what should already have been done.



James Langhammer, one of the most valuable resource people in livebearer circles, has mentioned the most intriguing thought that there are degrees of albinism. I'm going to ask around and see if that can be retrieved from the LML.

Several years ago we brought a strain of the old hobby strain of Endler's livebearers home from a club function. The males, which Scott Lockwood suggests are of the peacock strain, are probably descended from the original fish which were collected by Dr Endler in 1975.

Endler gave some of those fish to Poeciliid authority Dr. Donn Eric Rosen for description. Rosen, who passed away before he could describe them scientifically, happened to have given some to Klaus Kallman of the New York Aquarium. Kallman (bless his heart) gave some to aquarists who bred them and passed them around the hobby. (Imagine Dr. Endler's surprise upon visiting an event in England in the middle '80s and hearing about an "Endler's livebearer"!)

The males in that strain look like (very colorful) peas from the same pod. What is called "founder's effect" seems to have taken place, where the number of males became so few, that only one male color pattern was preserved and passed down to future generations. This is quite different from the diversity exhibited by the Endler's livebearers introduced into the hobby by Armando Poul. It is also different from what Dr. Endler witnessed with the original wild fish he collected. (Noticed that Armando's strain sold for a lot more at ALA auctions a couple of weeks ago.)

See
 http://members.cox.net/newcomb1/armando.html

"Our" strain of Endler's livebearer began throwing xanthic (golden fry) not long after I brought them home. If you can't be good, be lucky. ;)

Xanthic has been described to me as lacking in melanophores or black pigment. However one of the guppy books described a golden guppy as having very small melanophores which are unable to expand and so not perceived.

Some of our xanthic Endler's have then thrown what seem to be a few pure albino offspring. They show males with the typical Endler's coloration. Notice there are a couple of stages of color morphing here. That worries me in that it sounds like there is more than a basic two-gene combination at work.

To complicate things even more, last summer I brought in a disappointing number of the golds (two females and a little squirt) from a barrel in the back yard. In a GL diary entry I mentioned a lone youngster accompanied the two females. What I thought was a young female turned out to be a male albino without the color markings of the other albino males on his sides! (This sounds so like the sneaky colorless guppies in a batch.)

He has bred with the two females who have produced a bunch of mostly gold fry. They too deserve a closer look and larger quarters. A couple lighter fry are also in there with them.

I'm reluctantly pondering the set-up of a rack or table of 10 small tanks (as a starter) to more carefully investigate this phenomenon. A stud book and maybe a database will be set up. That involves quite a disruption in a bedraggled fishroom, which is still in the midst of a long overdue, perpetual, glacial reorganization.

Any advice and suggestions would be appreciated. Visiting geneticists could be put up in my son's humble, cluttered room while he is away at grad school. ;)

Those www.guppylog.com diary entries were:

A Long Time Before an Endler's Birthing
By unclescott Section Diaries
Posted on Thu Jan 22nd, 2004 at 14:54:55 PST

Endler's Outdoors
By unclescott
from the Guppy Care department, Section Diaries
Posted on Sun Sep 21st, 2003 at 23:11:01 PST

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Endler's of a Different Color | 3 comments (3 topical, 0 hidden)
Re: Endler's of a Different Color (none / 0) (#3)
by Angelee on Mon May 03, 2004 at 09:31:13 AM PST

     I found the information and this weekend ended up meeting an aquarist at the CAS spring auction that has been raising true albinos for 20 years.  (HAH!  How's that for lucky?  Maybe I should play powerball too?)  Anyhow, he was talking about the very same subject.  It seems that the line does seem to throw colors and revert more and more in subsequent generations.  I'll see if I can get more info from him, also a name and e-mail for you.  He sounds like he is going to try a new strain, this time HB's, half-black and whites.  I'll bet he has some fascinating insight on the subject.  In fact, sneaky me I asked if he'd be willing to sell some.  He is, and is bringing them to the next meeting on friday.  (I'm now an official member of Colorado Aquarium Society.)
    The other information can be found online.  I found an albino line diary, of sorts, at this url http:///www.world-guppy.de/english/article1/topswords.htm
The article is by an English fellow by the name of Alan Charlton.  On page 10 of the article it seems that his line of 15 years threw albinos, blondes and greys.  He has pictures posted, too.  It was originally a cobra topsword line.  He ended uptrashing the albino line after many failures and interestingly enough, by default, improved his blonde line.  He talks about several later attempts at the albino topsword line.  Interesting article and he even has pictures  of albino fry.  He mentions a lady named Midge Hill who has woked on the genetics of albino guppies.  As it turns out, there are two genetically distinct types of albinos in American guppies (type A and B), and a third type in Singapore (type C).  As it turned out, Alan had all three gene types present in his tanks!
     You were right, the albinism results from an inherited inability to produce the black pigment melanin.  I had to snicker when he mentioned that a lot of albino mammals have eye defects, which produce a pronounced squint.  How would you detect a squinting guppy?  :)    
"The Rocky Mountain Gupster" ANGELEE


Re: Endler's of a Different Color (none / 1) (#1)
by Angelee on Mon Apr 26, 2004 at 10:57:09 AM PST

US, you know I was thinking about this and I wonder if you ended up inadvertantly getting a double recessive fish from the get go. Perhaps, one gene reverted back to a more dominant hidden characteristic or vice versa.  Those recessive genes need to be in two pairs to show.  Let me research, it seems to me that I read something about the phenomenon (of reverting)someplace.  (I think it was in an albino gup strain, as a matter of fact.)  
"The Rocky Mountain Gupster" ANGELEE


Re: Endler's of a Different Color (none / 0) (#2)
by guppybreeder3313 on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 04:09:51 PM PST

I agree with Angelee
Ill do research on it as well

Glad i could be of some insperation!

[ Parent ]



Endler's of a Different Color | 3 comments (3 topical, 0 hidden)
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