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Albino Guppies

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By guppybreeder3313
from the E.T. department, Section Diaries
Posted on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 11:31:28 PM PST
Tags: (all tags)
I dunno if anyone here has had any experiences with albino guppies but...



HOW DO YOU GET THEM. I know you can get them from breeders, but have you SEEN how much they cost. I don't see albino guppies on sale, only mollies. Can you breed them to a poit where finally their eyes turn pink, or do you have to buy them directly. If you HAVE to buy them directly, it doesnt make any sence, how did they come about in the first place. Now I really would like some albinos. They are a lot of work but i think i am up to the challange (especially with 12 tanks availible). Anyone know any of this???
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Albino Guppies | 6 comments (6 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Albino Guppies (none / 0) (#6)
by Angelee on Mon Apr 26, 2004 at 11:36:50 AM PST

The albino gene is double recessive.  This means that to be expressed it need to be in two pairs at the allelle.  (4X)The reason is that the albino fish only contribute one type of genes to the eggs or sperm, while heterozygous fish contribute two types of genes.  The fastest way? To get the cccc combination, you need at least one albino fish.  If you start with only one albino here's what will happen.  There will be a total of choices for the genes in the pair.  Two from Mom and two from Dad, HOWEVER..not knowing the lineage of the fish there may be more markings, colors, and offshoots that didn't show in Mom or Dad.  All four will be the same genetically (albino gene tied to some regular gene).  The offspring will be exclusively heterozygous F1 because of the cross because the color gene is dominated by the regular wild type, and the recessive albino gene cannot express itself in the presence of a wild gene.  In the first cross you shouldn't get any albinos, excepting for the occasional mutant.  Now, outcross the fry with the albino parent.  You should end up with around %40 albino, %60 heterozygous and other, but only if said albino comes from a predictable line.  If the fish does not the breakdown is more like %25 albino, %75 other.  Homozygous fish will also display albinism, but probably incompletely.  Most of the fry should spring some albino babies somewhere along the line but not predictably.  
Here's one scenario.  
A Snakeskin Male outcrossed to an Albino Female to create an Albino Snakeskin line. When you do this, the first generation fry will not have any albinos. But when these fish have fry, they will produce about 25% albinos in the next generation.
You can tell the albino fry from the grey body fry as soon as they are born, as they are golden colored instead of dark. Seperate the albino fry and raise them together. They will produce all Albinos when both parents are Albino. An Albino guppy is required to have the red eye trait. Albino guppies at shows can have many very bright colors, but they can't show any black pigment at all.  
    Remember, since the albino gene is a double recessive trait, the first outcross to a fish without the trait will lose it.  With this in mind, start with at least one albino fish if you can find them.  (Local breeder or LFS, keep your eyes out!)

"The Rocky Mountain Gupster" ANGELEE


I bought a yellow albino (none / 0) (#1)
by maggie1270 on Thu Apr 22, 2004 at 11:48:33 AM PST

from my LFS in NJ.  Unfortunately they only had albino males.  The poor thing did not survive past 1 month, and now I have way too many males so I can't get another until I get rid of this Camallanus crap!
Maggie


Re: I bought a yellow albino (none / 0) (#2)
by guppybreeder3313 on Thu Apr 22, 2004 at 03:38:57 PM PST

Wbere in NJ did you buy them. And is there anyway i can make MY guppies have them?

[ Parent ]


Morris Sussex Pet Supply (none / 0) (#4)
by maggie1270 on Fri Apr 23, 2004 at 03:45:55 AM PST

in Succasunna/Ledgewood area (NW NJ) They had tons of them the last time I was there.  Red eyes and all!
Maggie
[ Parent ]


Re: I bought a yellow albino (none / 0) (#3)
by Geo3383 on Thu Apr 22, 2004 at 07:31:34 PM PST

in most species albinos are a mutant not a strain... with most species  two albinos mateing do NOT mean that the offspring will be albino. that means they are very rare in most species [true albinos that is (ie red eyes)].    or at least thats my understanding ... if you got enough generations i guess you could make them breed true but i would guess they would have some huge probelms ....

[ Parent ]


That's interesting about the weakness factor. (none / 0) (#5)
by unclescott on Mon Apr 26, 2004 at 09:33:44 AM PST

At a FAAS convention, livebearer guru James Langhammer cautioned about crossing albino guppy strains because he felt that different strains might actually have somewhat different genetic combinations behind the albinism of the strains. He felt that the careful selection of the strongest males and females and line breeding of that albino strain were the best ways to strengthen one's albino guppies. Naturally he would recommend backcrossing the two or four lines of those every so many generations.

So geo's observation that they are a mutant (like double sword guppies, veiltail guppies, black mollies, gold guppies and so on) is true. However they can be fixed.

guppybreeder3313's question about can your compel guppies to "have" albinos is interesting. Unless you are trying to hit your guppies with radiation, you are not likely to speed up the process. (And that may not work anyway.) ;)

Langhammer mentioned that albinism is not all that unusual in nature. Every so many thousand or tens of thousand offspring will produce an albino. Predators will usually consume the odd colored animal very quickly. Albinios (sort of like black angelfish) are also prone towards being less hardy than the other animals in that species.

Backcrossing that albino (aa) to a sibling (GG) will produce a gray generation (Ga). If those are bred one should get 25% GG, 50% Ga, and 25% aa which will "fix" the albino. (Angelee, did I get that right?)

If the strain of albinos is still weak, they could be back crossed to robust gray guppies in their ancestral strain. Those could then be taken through that two generation process to produce another pure aa strain.

Or if Maggie were to only have an albino male, she actually could go to the trouble of crossing them into another line of fancy guppies and working, working ,working to fix the albino color - and probably the more challenging task of also keeping the large deltatails of both lines.

I was really impressed by Langhammer's intimation that albinism was more common than we realize (look at the fascination with "white" tigers). I raised the question in the late `90s on the Livebearer Mailing List. "The Hammer" corrected my "every so many thousand" frequency of an albino offspring. I apologized for hearing what I wanted to hear. ;)

What was especially neat was that a pretty extensive discussion about albinos resulted from the initial exchange. One of the most intriguing things he contended was that there are degrees of albinism. Unfortunately the server carrying the archives for that list went down and has not been restored. I may have copies on an old Superdrive disk, but I haven't installed a recently purchased Superdrive player on a backup computer to check them. That is unfortunately way down the list of projects which must be done first.

If you consider how much it would cost to secure a great strain of fancy guppies, linebreed, and raise 1,000-40,000 of them in an effort to get an albino strain, it might be easier (and a lot cheaper in terms of time, effort, money and space) to purchase a very high priced pair or two trios from one of the breeders which comes up after a www.google.com albino guppy image search or throught the IFGA store. :)

About the 10th of this month I also spun the yarn about how a weak strain of Fundulopanchax garderi (probably the guppy of the killies) was strenthened by backcrossing to a "wild" or gray bodies strain. I wouldn't be surprised that the fixing of several of the other albino fishes in the aquarium hobby have gone through similar care.

I have a strain of Endler's livebearer which began throwing xanthic (golden fry) not long after I brought them home. If you can't be good, be lucky. ;)

If you don't mind, I'm going to spin this Endler experience off as a Log entry. I too need some help, encouragement and advice as to what to do.

[ Parent ]



Albino Guppies | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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