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Setting Up Advice Please

Aquaria
By miskairal
from the miskairal department, Section Ask Guppylog
Posted on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 12:20:29 PM PST
Tags: (all tags)
I've been searching the net and this is just the best site.



Well I've been off to visit heaps of sites, many of which were illegible (and I'm not that old yet :)

I couldn't find what I was looking for so am back to bother you guys and girls again.

My aim is to set up a 2nd tank with all my male guppies in and leave the 1st tank with the females and babies in.

I have already in my possession a 100litre tank (25 gall I think), a waterfall type filter, a heater and a stand is on order and expected to take another 2 weeks to arrive (remember I'm in the bush).

The first tank that is currently home to everything (same size)has an undergravel filter plus a corner filter thing that has charcoal and a sponge in it, heater, light etc

What I want to know is what filtering system would you advise if I currently owned nothing? What is your opinion of the filtering systems I have (setup by another person)and have available? My Mum owned the waterfall and says the fish seemed to love it and it kept the tank very clean, it's easy and not too noisy. I like the idea but before I go ahead and use it, would prefer your opinion on them. Should I remove the undergravel filter from tank 1 and use something else?

My intention is to have only a very thin layer of gravel in the new tank, plants and a light. Would an air stone be needed with the waterfall filter if I use it?

No doubt I'll be back with more questions.
Thanks in advance for your time to read this

Oh and I also wondered about water. I have available both rain water from a tank and creek water that is pumped to a tank to be used by the house. Do these need any treatment? No chemicals are added but the creek water tends to look a bit yellowish in a tank and so far I have been using the rainwater.

miskairal

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Setting Up Advice Please | 16 comments (14 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
Thank you for the kind comments (none / 0) (#1)
by unclescott on Wed Mar 03, 2004 at 09:23:37 PM PST

about Guppylog. I hope you are right. ;)

When you note that you are in the bush and your temperature was recently up to 40 degrees (about 104 F to the Gringos), are you in Australia?
You mentioned it last, but do you use the tank and creek water for drinking? Do you know what "hardness" it might be?

Guppies often come from pretty hard water and probably would do ok in drinking water. I would use the rainwater to "top off" the tank when evaporation takes away water.

Would you have a container in which you could run the creek water through a carbon filter such as the carbon filters used on drinking water? That might clear the objectionable color and most potential pollutants.

If your water is really hard, you might try a creek water / rainwater mix. Guppies would be fine in water of a hardness of 120-200 p.p.m. or 7- 12 degrees hardness (German or American).

You would want to only gradually add a little creek water at a time. Maybe 5% a day through a trickle line (airline tied in a light knot) for a couple of days and then 10% from time to time.

Rainwater is chemically very unstable. When your Katie did a massive water change, the guppies could have been chemically shocked. That may partially explain the grief your large female experienced. Rainwater also lacks key minerals (trace elements and calcium, magnesium, potassium and maybe a little sodium chloride) necessary for proper growth.

I'm glad you are making a more responsible effort to limit your guppy population than do many aquarists. Separating the sexes may work in time. (That six month figure is a "guesstimate" of the time to drop six batches of fry since she can store packets of sperm which fertilize later batches of fry.)

However, when fry begin to "sex out", the females will show their gravid spot before the males will show their gonopodium. It is more reliable taking females out while they are virgin. If one tries to take males out, by the time they are identified, the males may have already inseminated the tank of females. There is a special risk that the plainest, least attractive male will be the one missed.

Do you want to set up a third tank for the fry? ;)

Despite your efforts your population may still get to the point where you may just leave new born fry with the females to get eaten.(However, it sounds like your care has been so good that they weren't interested in the fry.) :)

An undergravel filter is a fine biological filter. BUT you must gravel vacuum the dirt and dirty water out of it almost weekly or at the end of a year (plus or minus) that glop under the gravel will foul the tank and maybe even kill the fish. Some plants do well with u.g. filters, some don't.

You mention a "a corner filter thing that has charcoal and a sponge in it, heater, light etc" . Is that similar to the Eclipse system sold in the US where there is a biowheel filter set up and light in the tank cover?

Keeping the u.g. filter with the other filter is your call. Ironically you will have better filtered water but may need to do partial changes more often to clean under the u.g. filter.

Is that waterfall a power filter - where water is drawn into a box outside the tank, run through some filter media and allowed to flow back into the tank? Is there a danger of baby guppies getting sucked into it?

An airstone is probably not necessary with a power filter. It is nice insurance if the filter stops working. (I might just keep it handy - just in case...)

In your second tank, if you have a thin layer of gravel, will you be only using plants which do not need to be rooted? There certainly are some fine guppy plants which don't need a lot of (or any) gravel. A thin layer of gravel is easier to clean and will help the guppies feel more comfortable than if they were in a glass bottomed tank. (Please see the plant log of 09/06/2003)

More gravel will offer more surface for "good guy" bacteria. Also, rooted plants such as Val. need close to 3 cm or more for better growth.
You sound like you are making a yeoman effort to care for inherited/ rescued guppies. You are the second correspondent to Guppylog in as many weeks to do that.

Good luck and all the best,
u.s.



Re: Thank you for the kind comments (none / 0) (#5)
by miskairal on Fri Mar 05, 2004 at 02:31:48 AM PST

Wow - thankyou so much for all your advice. Of all the internet sites I've visited over my 4 years with internet access, this would get 10/10 for friendliness, ease, visual appearance and everything else.

Yes I am Auusie and proud of it :) If you want to read a brilliant book about us written by a "yank"  try Downunder by Bill Bryson - it is hilarious and so true. On page 1 he tells how we LOST a prime minister.

Sorry to loose track.
We drink the rain water but use the creek water for everything else (not a lot of rain here normally) I clean my teeth in the creek water and don't notice any difference. I will obtain a ph testing kit when next in town and test both - maybe a combination will turn out to be best?? I like the idea of filtering the creek water but I'm concerned (now that I've thought about it more)about the vineyards that have started way further upstream who pour chemicals onto their land. It's amazing that rain water might be detrimental.

Oh boy you have me worried about the sexing and separating now :) I didn't intend letting them keep on breeding or having a fry tank as there would be no market for them (given away or sold). Maybe I'll have to set up a temporary fry tank though until they stop breeding. I'd love to breed them - it is fascinating.

Ok - so more gravel is better. I had formed the impression from what I'd read that less is better or none is better still but you have me easily convinced. More gravel means a better ecosystem - is that right?

The corner filter is just a plastic container that holds charcoal and the sponge and has air inlet and outlet tubes. The light and heater are separate itmes that I mentioned I had. The ug filter was my Mum's from the 70's that I had here, hidden away in a box along with heaps of other junk, that Katie used. Does that make sense? Our house is huge and old and all my family seem to think of it as good storage. I just wish they'd come help at cleaning time :)

I have been vacuuming the gravel in the tank with the ug filter but maybe I should do it more often.

The waterfall filter thing has it's own power cord and sucks the water up which passes through a bag of charcoal and a sponge before flowing back into the tank. It's still got a piece of gauze over the inlet that Mum put there. BTW Mum gave up on fish after visiting us one Xmas and arriving home 2 days later to find all her fish dead from the heat. My sister also lost all her fish at the same time as did other people.

I tried counting the fry tonight when I fed the fish. I counted a group of about 10 then figured there were 4-5 groups of around the same size. I wonder if I'll ever know how many there are? There is also a silver shark and a female swordtail, 4 tetras, a catfish and a silver dollar in the tank with no obvious squabbles.

Thanks Geo3383 - this is a reply to you as well but I clicked the wrong button I've just realized.
You lot are so great with your help!!

I've just opened the plant log page but will leave that to read tomorrow after I milk my 150 goats starting at 4.30 am - way past my bedtime now :)

Cheers
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



A pH testing kit may not be (none / 0) (#6)
by unclescott on Fri Mar 05, 2004 at 03:15:07 PM PST

as important as a "hardness" kit. TDS (total dissolved solids) can be pretty effectively approximated by sensors which measure electric flow in microsiemons (sp?). The greater the flow, the more "stuff" is in the water. The latter is more expensive. Neither is prefect, but each does help give an idea of what is in the water.

I'm as guilty as any in suggesting a lot of ways to spend one's money. I would rein that in a little.

If water changes are pretty faithfully done, your pH shouldn't plunge. If the pH did plummet, you would see the fish erraticially and skittishly darting around the tank and you conclude that a partial, gradual, but immediate water change is an excellent idea. ;)

I'm sure several here will disagree, but I feel that hardness is usually more significant than pH. In a lot of the old literature they talk about breeding fish in acid water because researchers in the tropics measured waters in the tropical rainforests with pH kits and found the waters acid. Only later did "they" begin to measure the hardness of the water. They found that, especially in the rainy season, that there was very little mineral in the water. While demineralized water tends to be acid (because there is so little mineral to buffer the water to a higher pH) usually the real key to triggering the spawning of Discus, Apistogrammas, some killifish, and many tetras, is the more modest mineral content. I seem to recall that spawning peaks for your Queensland rainbows in the rainy season.

"Now wait a minute!" a guppy or swordtail person will say. My livebearers were found in water with a pH above neutral. Well yes, those waters have proportionately more mineral than a lot of tropical regions. The Caribbean basin's landmasses are over limestone, which easily dissolves in water, making it more alkaline and mineral laden.

Florida is a big piece of limestone and Sarasota area fish farms do very well raising livebearers. South East Asian waters are not so mineral rich and that is why adjusting livebearers grown there is tricky. On the other hand there are some incredibly beautiful Anabandids, Rasboras and other stunning fish from SE Asia, so they have fabulous native fishes in their own right.

Much of Oz is pretty arid and I would bet pH would usually be above neutral, especially in the bush. (Is that the same as the outback or a different region?)

That agricultural run off question is an important one. Does your stream, have a hardy population of rainbowfish, gudgeons, strawmen and the like? Do they seem the same as populations upstream of the agricultural areas?

I don't know that the US would have a government agency frequently testing water way out in the countryside nor what you would have. You might make inquiries to see if there is such a service there.

A carbon block filter is even more expensive than the activated carbon put into filters. I'm not sure exactly how to set it up either. But it would last a lot longer. In aquaria those carbon compartments are chemically active for up to two weeks. By then they have "adsorbed" about all the chemicals (urine, medicine, heavy metals in the water) which they can. In many cases they then become good biological filters - but I would worry about them shedding some of their chemical load after a water change.

That Aussie filter combo with charcoal and a sponge is a clever combination. A new one would offer the benefits of a chemical filter until the biological side really got going.

Maybe I've just been hiding in my cave. Does anyone know if that type of filter is available elsewhere?

As your silver shark (Arius?), silver dollar and tetras grow larger; baby guppies may not be such an issue for you. In nature, if a pair of guppies had another pair of their offspring grow up and reproduce yet another generation, they have broken even on the numbers game. Most fry in the wild are food for something else.

I owe a considerable debt to an Internet mailing list called the Rainbowfish Mailing List. They also discuss water conditions and other Fishes of Australia and Papua-New Guinea. A number of that list's members from Down Under also belong to ANGFA http://www.angfa.org.au/ . Those groups may also be useful resources for you.

I would also applaud you for not dumping the guppies in the creek. That is a hot button for both ANGFA (Australia New Guinea Fishes Association) and NANFA (North American Native Fishes Association) people because of their awareness of how many exotics have been dumped, become established and the ecological mess which has resulted.


[ Parent ]



Re: A pH testing kit may not be (none / 0) (#7)
by miskairal on Fri Mar 05, 2004 at 08:25:49 PM PST

Hi again and thanks again!

What have I let myself in for, I ask. There is so much to learn. But I guess that makes a healthy and happy tank all that more rewarding. The "bush" where I live is near a tiny town - it's maybe halfway between city and outback I guess

I've tested some water with a straight Ph test kit I found under the tank (Katie must have bought it) but will check out in town what I can get for further testing. The results were:
Rainwater 6.3
Creek water 7.6
The fish tank itself 6.8
Why would the fish tank be higher than the rainwater when only rain water has been used in it? There are a lot of native creek plants in the tank that seem to be doing Ok and there is some lime rocks ie. lime quarry (owned by Americans :) on our farm and Katie must have used some bits of rock for decoration. At this point you are thinking why didn't this stupid lady tell me all this stuff in the beginning :) Well, I hadn't really paid attention as it was Katie who set it all up. The tank itself was my Mum's so will be staying here.
The tank was due for it's weekly (20%ish)water change today. Rather than do an abrupt change to more creek water I used 25% creekwater and 75% rainwater - was this the right thing to do? Should I increase the % of creekwater I use over the next few changes? It's going to take me time to learn all this so I'm just trying to find out what to do in the meantime. The fish always seem to love the new water added and hang out under it while I let it trickle in from a bucket but today they seemed to enjoy it even more.

Charcoal - do I leave that there? I have been cleaning the sponge once a week and last time I rinsed the charcoal well too - sounds like this was the wrong thing to do. Am I meant to leave it all alone so it can make it's biological setup or should I change the charcoal every two weeks?

Spawning in rainy season - well we had an "almost" cyclone go through yesterday evening with big heaps of rain and wind but PLEASE no more fry yet :)

Is it Ok to do a gravel vacuum every day for a while (with the resultant need for water replacement)because despite weekly vacuuming there still seems to be a lot of "stuff" in amongst it but I can't get enough out before I've taken out too much water with it - am I making sense?

The big fish don't seem at all interested in the fry (yet). It's got to the point where even the fry born on the hot weekend 2 weeks ago are swimming out and about without a care in the world, right past the shark's nose and so far numbers don't seem to have dwindled but who'd know with all the plants in there I guess.

My apologies for my long winded posts. I have made note of all your provided links and will get on to reading them and leave you alone soon I hope. Just trying to avoid disasters before I learn more. What are Rainbow fish?

Ok, OK, I'm off
Thanks big heaps AGAIN!!
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Good Morning Miskairal, (none / 0) (#8)
by unclescott on Sat Mar 06, 2004 at 03:55:02 AM PST

As you have guessed, the rocks are dissolving in the tank and raising the pH. For a lot of fish that would be pretty dangerous. So long as you are regularly changing water you can probably get away with it with the guppies and fairly soft water. ;)

It is good to see that the others don't seem negatively effected.

Your rainwater pH doesn't sound too unusual. Nothing in it to buffer it. Water easily dissolves carbon dioxide which drops that pH.

Conventional wisdom suggests using inert rocks which don't dissolve in the aquarium. There are worse things which can dissolve than limestone. Yet similar substances have been used to buffer the pH for everything from Rift Lake African cichlids to baby rainbowfishes.

"At this point you are thinking why didn't this stupid lady tell me all this stuff in the beginning :)" Don't beat yourself up! You are sailing along a learning curve quite fast. I'm sure a lot of those dropping in on the conversation are smiling and identifying with your experiences. And there are always learning curves like this. ("What's under the hood of the car?" "A bunch of great gray, greasy shapes.")

I think you are doing the right thing in increasing the % of creek water. By trickling it in, the fish have a chance to adjust to the new chemistry. A chemist fish-head friend, alluding to exactly the kind of partial water changes you are doing, has suggested that, "you can't do too many water changes."

Now he is aware of the fact that some fish can be shocked by too radical a change (in terms of chemistry). And yes there are some species which are real touchy (those Rift Lake fish again). But as you have seen, your guppies are gathering under the "rainfall" and frolicking with glee. :)

More frequent changes and increasing the creek water component gradually should be fine. That's what the pros should do. With the situation you describe concerning the gravel, the frequent water changes make sense too.

Owing to a family emergency some years back, I neglected a rainbowfish tank (skipping weekly partial water changes) to the point where they were dying off from the bottom of the pecking order on up. Daily 20-30% water changes halted the illness. As the water changes continued, the survivors began healing, top down in the pecking order. :)

You have a huge advantage over the city slickers who have to contend with the chlorine, ammonia and other garbage "they" add to the water. Some of us either have to play treatment games or wait for days before using the tap water.

If you want to pay for the charcoal, go ahead and change it every two weeks. Maybe lightly squeeze out and rinse the sponge in the alternative weeks.

Your cyclone and almost cyclone are hurricanes and almost hurricanes? (Ah summer!) If you were raising pairs of small catfishes or cichlids, you would watch them spawn as the storm fronts came though and triggered the spawning. Urban kids don't have the farm animals to inform them about reproduction and animals. Summer thunderstorms and several very predictable fish tanks did that for our kids.

"The big fish don't seem at all interested in the fry (yet)." LOL! You just take too darn good care of them! ;)

"My apologies for my long winded posts." Don't apologize. (Like, I would have a right to criticize?) This is a part of the process of growing in the aquarist's craft. If I didn't have time to answer, I wouldn't (and please take no offense in that). There are a lot of others on this list who would step in with their answers.

This list probably is populated primarily with Americans. Although spread out across the United States, there seem to be modest concentrations in California, the Lower Great Lakes region (especially Illinois for some reason) and the North-east (especially New York).

We've also been privileged to meet three correspondents from Oz. Gupppies is a regular. Also have met a gentleman from Turkey, a neat lady from Scandinavia and a couple very thoughtful people from Latin America. Americans are too often too insular. It's wonderful meeting people from elsewhere.

There is a small dog next to me (the schnoodle) asking if "we" are really going to stay up at 4:45 in the morning. (No goats to service here.) I'm trying to decide whether to take the 3 hour milk run to the Peoria auction this morning. Probably 3 hours is a distance of no consequence in the bush.

The first light timer clicked on in the fish room (sunrise).

My lady has responded to my query if she minded my skipping out for the day. "Sure, get out of my hair." ;)

There's the second light timer (after proof reading this note). Time to hit the road.

All the best!
u.s.


[ Parent ]



Re: Good Morning Miskairal, (none / 0) (#10)
by miskairal on Sat Mar 06, 2004 at 07:42:51 PM PST

It is funny you mention kids learning reproduction on a farm - my sister owes me big time for what I saved her with her kids :)

A 3 hour drive is a lot to me as I was actually born in Sydney. I now live in Qld (north) but travelling is difficult between milkings. My son was working on a cattle station 9 hours drive from here and the nearest shop (pub more preferable no doubt) was an hour's drive away.

Ok back to fish :)
I have found an Aussie online store - http://www.equarium.com.au/store/category.asp?catid=19
(after reading for a couple of hours at The Krib). I would like your advice on these test kits - should I buy them and what's really necessary? The information at The Krib is overload for me at the moment plus one person says test for everything and another says don't bother???? The kits in the $15-$20 price range are affordable for me right now.

Another question I've thought of :)
When I finally set up the new tank, can I use some of the water from tank 1 to get tank 2 going? Would that help the fish I transfer from Tank 1 to 2 settle in?

I need to do a lot more reading still especially on biological filtering. It's mentioned but not explained fully so far. Also algae - should I clean it all away or leave a little?? There is a bit on the stems that come up from the ug filter. Ahhhhh so much to learn. Don't get me wrong, I love learning, but I'm scared I won't learn the right things in time. I lost numerous goats in my early years to things which I could now cure or fix easily and I can pick a sick goat a mile away. It seems unfair that the animal has to suffer while I learn.

Managed to keep this shorter - must be the developing headache from all the information trying to be absorbed :)

Hope the 3 hour drive was smooth
Cheers
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Go ahead and use water from (none / 0) (#12)
by unclescott on Sun Mar 07, 2004 at 11:32:02 PM PST

established tanks for a new one. Also helpful is a little (or a lot) of the gravel, only very lightly rinsed, in the new tank. How about switching filter sponges?

The beauty of having an established, healthy tank is that "cloning" tanks off it is sooooo much easier than starting from scratch. :)

There were questions on cleaning plants before, so I posted a log with a couple of small suggestions. Oh yeah - those things will get rid of leaches too. :)

Geo, I have poached on your thread. I hope you don't mind too much.

Just out of curiosity Miskairal, do you know what those plants are? There is a site by Tropica
http://www.tropica.com/default.asp
which might be some help.

I brought some plants home from a stream last summer and fiddled around with getting them cleaned up and in a tank. They did poorly.

I'll try again this summer. But preparations for receiving them will be done first.

A little algae on the filter stem is no big deal if it doesn't both you. Many guppy habitats may have more algae and emergent vegitation than higher plants growing in the water. I don't think the guppies care. ;)

I'll look at that Aussie web site tomorrow, er, later. But I think GG, RI, Angelee, Maggie, SL, Nate and a bunch of others from GL are better qualified than I (the cheapskate) to comment upon them though.

[ Parent ]



Re: Go ahead and use water from (none / 0) (#14)
by miskairal on Mon Mar 08, 2004 at 07:51:01 PM PST

Oh boy unclescott - you sure know how to dole out the reading - I think you are just trying to keep me out of mischief :)

I went the Tropica site, ANGFA and back to The Krib amongst many others but have yet to find "my" plants - it is taking a long time to go through all the links when I have no idea what the plants are to start with and I must admit I left some sites before finishing my search.

Do you know of any sites that have the pics of plants with the names after the pic? I have a bad photo taken on an old old digital camera - ahhh, hae a thought and will post a new question to all guppylog.

Thanks big heaps for everything
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Re: Good Morning Miskairal, (none / 0) (#9)
by Geo3383 on Sat Mar 06, 2004 at 07:06:36 PM PST

Man i love this place, i learn stuff with every post even if i didn't ask a question :) i gota give props to ya, for gups you rescued your puting a ton of effort in to them :) Best of luck to ya i live in a small town as well and i often have problems finding what i need [i drove 4 hours to pick up some plants last week :) ] hope you have better luck then i am on that department :)

best of luck

[ Parent ]



What plants did you get on the long drive Geo? (none / 0) (#13)
by unclescott on Mon Mar 08, 2004 at 11:40:40 AM PST

The phrase long drive sounds like something out of the American frontier of 1870.

Here we are making long drives for fish and plants! ;)

I hear of specialists in upper NY driving 6 hours to get to a meeting. Another on the Great Plains (central ND way up into Saskatchewan)will drive 6 hours to visit another specializing fishhead. They'd grab dinner, talk fish, explore the fish room. He'd sleep on the couch and head home the next day with a new treasure in his fish box.

I feel spoiled rotton. :)

all the best!
u.s.

[ Parent ]



Re: What plants did you get on the long drive Geo? (none / 0) (#15)
by Geo3383 on Sun Mar 14, 2004 at 11:52:59 AM PST

lol sorry for the delay, been a bit bussy the last week, work related :P.

The plants i picked up, no clue what they are called, the pep at the LFS couldn't tell me either :) ignorance is bliss i guess. i live in Michigan about 2 hr south of the bridge. which makes me about 4 hrs north of any large cities where you can actully find a LFS with more then the basics. I was thinking of takeing a day or two off for the next show in chicago show it's only a 9 hr drive :P .

[ Parent ]



Geo, there is always the Grand Valley Aquarium (none / 0) (#16)
by unclescott on Sun Mar 14, 2004 at 01:47:28 PM PST

Club and their Annual Spring Auction on Saturday, March 27th in Grand Rapids at the
Crusader's Center (probably Calvin College)
1065 - 36th Street, S.E.
in Grand Rapids, MI

Scoot over to Rt 131 and head south. That'll only be a couple of hours. ;)

Next time you swing by the library, get on their listings computer and type in Aquarium Plants. Take out (or interlibrary order) anything by Rataj, Strodula or - most recently - Christel Kasselmann. Pabloo Tepoot, Ines Scheurmann, Barry James, Windelov, Peter Hiscock, and others are useful too. That is just getting your money's worth out of your library district taxes. ;)

Do a Net search for the Eastern Michigan A.S. too. Kalamazoo (SW Michigan) had their auction yesterday.

There is a very good sounding guppy club in Detroit. Do a search for their site.

[ Parent ]



Re: Good Morning Miskairal, (none / 0) (#11)
by miskairal on Sun Mar 07, 2004 at 06:26:33 PM PST

Hey Geo (can I call you that :)  - where are you on this planet?

Plants - hmmm! Well that was what I was going to struggle with today. I didn't realize there are all sorts of lights available and that you have to look after the plants as well. I had (before all this reading) intended just to grab plants out of the creek when I needed to but now I'm worried about diseases getting in. I am wondering if you can "sterilize" them with anything? You drove 4 hours for plants??? I'd say that is a monumental effort!!!

I'm putting in the work b/c I love these fish and I hate (yes a strong word) people who don't look after their animals. I was only meant to be "babysitting" these fish but I didn't know how much was involved when I said Yes and I'm sure Katie doesn't know either and she didn't know they would breed like they have. She won't be able to afford a tank big enough to house them all so I will happily keep most of them.

Ok, I'm off to read about that lighting
Cheerio
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Water hardness is kind of a slippery term. (none / 0) (#4)
by unclescott on Thu Mar 04, 2004 at 09:57:07 AM PST

Maybe the following will help.
http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/hard-slu.html

The Krib can be a great resource for definitions of terms.

[ Parent ]



Setting Up Advice Please | 16 comments (14 topical, 2 editorial, 0 hidden)
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