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Automated water changer revisions | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

Re: Automated water changer revisions (none / 0) (#1)
by miskairal on Sun May 21, 2006 at 01:48:22 AM PST

So when are you coming back to Oz, I might get you up here for a visit (bring some tools with you too, eh?).

Seriously though, I would love to set something up like that on my tanks especially the saltwater one as water changes on it are back breaking. As for the gravel vacuuming, I'm sure you will think of something ;)

Thanks for sharing that great info Peter.
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help

Re: Automated water changer revisions (none / 0) (#5)
by no1likeme1414 on Mon May 22, 2006 at 01:46:13 PM PST

WOW! Holy Cow, I was so excited when I purchased one of these: http://www.pythonproducts.com/nospill.htm

Now, my newfound smugness has been utterly destroyed. That is quite the setup you've got going on there!

20% PER DAY?! AYFKM? Awesome!

Thanks for the post, Peter!

[ Parent ]

Re: Automated water changer revisions (none / 0) (#9)
by PeterW on Wed May 24, 2006 at 01:45:41 PM PST

Yes. 20%.

It seems to me that what most bothers the fish is a sudden change in their conditions. Particularly the water chemistry, but my personal observation is that temperature variations seems to matter less than chemical changes.

So, on one hand if you do a water change every week, fortnight or month, then the incoming water is going to be significantly different chemically to the water you're taking out. Bigger changes logically will cause more of a shock.

But, if you can do what I do, then a 5% change 4 times per day (total 20%) means that there is little to no chance of any major chemical buildup relative to tap water. That 5% change happens by plant dripper over a 30 minute period, so any temerature changes are going to be lost in the noise.

Having this much water change means that the fish seem to do well even in what would be normally a case of serious overstocking. Pet stores get away with high stocking levels by having massive filtration capacity and daily water changes from the sump as part of their routine. Likewise, I seem to be able to get away with having an unthinkable number of guppies in a 20 gallon tank at times. Not that I like doing it, but sometimes they just breed too fast and it takes a while to reach equilibrium.

[ Parent ]

But for people with a large tank, getting a python (none / 0) (#6)
by unclescott on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:10:56 PM PST

is a terrific idea. If your tap has chlorinated or chloramined water, be careful adding it straight to your aquarium. If the tank is well established, you probably can add a dose of a conditioner like Ultimate, Ammo-Lock, AmQuel or something similar to the tank and run some (10-15% of the tank's?) water of like temperature there. If the tank is new (1-2 months), be careful. A stronger case for seasoning the water can be made.

I use my python to take gunk out and to add water to really dirty tanks that are going to be washed out and restarted. Maybe that is just me.

Of course I am considering getting a small sump pump, with a switch on a long cord and with a hose, to bring water to tanks. Maintaining aquariums needn't be a physical fitness workout, unless you want it to be one.

Using a tool like the python could also be a step on the road Peter has taken. Or you may find it is enough to enable you to do a great job with a community aquarium.

ATB!
uncle, different strokes for different folks, scott

[ Parent ]

Re: But for people with a large tank, getting a py (none / 0) (#10)
by PeterW on Wed May 24, 2006 at 02:03:11 PM PST

Beware, I started with a Python too. :-)

On the subject of sumps and pumps, did I mention that I have two buckets in the area with a water level triggered sump pump in it? This is really useful too.

When I'm cleaning a tank with a large number of fry in it, I siphon into a 5 gallon bucket. After the water clears, I can shine a light in to make sure I haven't caught any fry. When I'm ready, I just dump the bucket in the sump system. The water level rises, the pump turns on, and drains it out through a dishwasher attachment in the sink.

Of course, using a pump to draw seasoned water from a sump is only one step behind what I did, so beware. :-) Instead of a sump pump, I use a pressure pump normally associated with RO systems and a bladder tank. That way I just have to turn on a tap and have prepared water right there.

As for chloramine, I believe the majority of water supplies for larger populations in the US are well and truely loaded with chloramine now. Simply aging the water does absolutely nothing because it is in a stable state. I've heard of people putting water with chloramine directly into a tank and having the tank absorb the hit somehow, but usually this is from other people who didn't know that aging chloramine contamintated water doesn't work anymore. They were used to aging water which allowed the chlorine to outgas into the air. Having a lot of plants seems to be the key as plants do seem to break it down rather readily to get to the nitrogen in the ammonia part of the chloramine molecule.

On the other hand, an incident with chloramine water is what killed my favourite fish store last year. They normally put the hose in the sump for a short amount of time to let it fill and overflow. This is how they did their water changes. The problem was that somebody left it on all night and the chlormaine hit was just too much for their system to handle. Everything crashed and all the fish died (except for some apparently indestructable cichlids and an 18 inch long pleco!). Their insurance company called it quits and they had to close.

[ Parent ]

Re: But for people with a large tank, getting a py (none / 0) (#7)
by no1likeme1414 on Mon May 22, 2006 at 04:45:31 PM PST

Hmm ... obviously you are the expert, and I am the scribe, but I have used the Python (direct link to the faucet that both drains and fills the tank) for water changes since I bought it months ago. Also, I never did "season" water, because my wife is already done with my fish hobby and I don't have as many tanks, fish and toys that I'd love to have, much less an RO unit or 55-gal. drums of rainwater sitting around. ;)

So far, I've never had a problem with the tap water so long as I dump some Amquel + (removes chlorine, chroramine, ammonia, nitrates and nitrites) as well as stress coat (rem. chlorine, chroramine).

The worst "disaster" was when I failed to match the water temperature ... most of my new fish went into shock for a few minutes that time. Happily, none died!

If for nothing else, the Python system is FANTASTIC for gravel cleaning / drainage. At least you don't have to carry water one way! :P

[ Parent ]

You've got to work with what you have. (none / 0) (#8)
by unclescott on Mon May 22, 2006 at 05:10:56 PM PST

I'm tickled it works so well for you.

I wonder if we could find out what the active ingredients for Amquel II and Stress Coat are. If they are the same, using them both is redundent. On the other hand (or is that fin?), different chemicals can be used to reach similar goals.

You have quite a bit of company among those who feel that an established aquarium will take a certain amount of chloramine and "use it up." It seems that Python water changers are almost a requirement for "cichlididiots" (their term not mine) since they use such big tanks and often need such massive water changes. Certainly the hobby would be different without them (both the pythons and cichlid enthusiasts).

By the way, for the thrifty minded, one can put together a less expensive device with just a clean garden hose (drinking quality means you don't have to worry about plasticisers washing out, though one could just let it rinse out before use) and one of those water bed changers. I think the python would last a lot longer than the water bed devices however.

all the best!
unc

[ Parent ]

Welcome back Peter! Always look (none / 0) (#4)
by unclescott on Mon May 22, 2006 at 10:47:47 AM PST

forward to your treatises. :)

In fact, I was alluding to your comments on Ich when your log appeared. Those comments have been very useful.

You always give me stuff to shoot for. I would echo Miskairal's "do you do house calls."

Discovered that using RO water for coffee (since the RO water is so chemically active) requires only half as much ground coffee in the basket.)

Alisa's is an interesting question about plants. As a gross generalization, plants usually do well in clean water which is a little alkaline in pH. Is it possible (echoing some tanks with UG filters) that your water is so clean that the plants are starving? That wouldn't explain why the Najas is doing so well though.

Could it be a light factor? Who has made it and who hasn't?

I never used to be able to keep sword plants (Echinodoris). They would starve for light, getting smaller and smaller...

Since I have increased the number of light fixtures around the place, lowered some of the 4' shop lights to within 6" of the water and begun rotating the (brighter, more efficient fluorescent) T-8s in to replace the (older, more common) T-12s I have been gratified to find better plant growth with several species. Still haven't tried sword plants yet though. ;)

Of course you probably have skylights by now and control them with baffles run by a program on your computer. :)

All the best!
unc

[ Parent ]

Automated water changer revisions | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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