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Will Defects in parents effect breeding??? | 4 comments (4 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
If the deformity was environmental - the water was (none / 0) (#1)
by unclescott on Sat Jul 23, 2005 at 07:29:35 AM PST

really cold or too hot while the fry were being carried or growing up, then the guppies wouldn't carry the chromosome for that deformity. Likewise really dirty water (or maybe a lack of water changes which would deprive the fish of selected vitamins and minerals) could lead to that condition.

More likely though is that they are inbred. That is sloppy and if they were saved for sale, unethical. Somebody along the line was not taking the kinked-tailed fish out of the tank where fry were being saved.

It is to your credit that you are thinking this through. Once in a while, some people just want to dump defective fish on shops (and then those people wonder why shops don't want to buy from hobbyists.)

No moral giant I, but when some gardneri strains got mixed, I gave them away as feeders. The price was the promise that they wouldn't be bred

What you are doing - keeping the deformed fish, but not saving their fry, is the kindest form of culling. Please only breed guppies with straight spinal cords with one another. I know a couple of fish-heads with an odds and ends tank like that.

It is possible that after a couple of generations of selecting properly formed guppies from your strains, the problem will be bred out. It is also possible to take a mate from another line and breed it to your properly shaped fish.

A third option is to leave that whole group of fish by themselves and not take any out for breeding or sale. (Commercial breeders would/should euthanize the bent spined fish and maybe the who strain - because they would bankrupt themselves taking care of unsalable fish.)

Somebody may have taken another option with your fish. Some ethical dwarf may have dumped them all on the market.

3A. You then go buy another line, looking carefully and raise them. :)

All the best!
uncle scott



Re: Could be tuberculosis (none / 0) (#2)
by mcmike81 on Sun Jul 24, 2005 at 01:06:45 AM PST

This could be fish tuberculosis. It sounds a lot like it. This is a link to some info on it (its toward the bottom of the page)
http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=173

You might want to check it out.

[ Parent ]



Interesting! I'd forgotten that Mycobacterium (none / 0) (#3)
by unclescott on Sun Jul 24, 2005 at 07:37:29 AM PST

could cause skeletal deformities. If that is the case, there may also be "a loss of appetite, pale skin color, emaciation, lethargy, skin ulcers, and general poor health." In that case one of those other things should manifest itself. There are a couple of species of Mycobacterium ,which can effect fish. One species causes a variant labeled "fish leprosy."

If the only problem the guppies have is the spinal deformity, the affliction is not fish TB. I would never encourage the breeding and spread of guppies seriously infected with Mycobacterium.

Fish TB is probably found in minute quantities in far more aquariums than we realize. The bacterium seems to have a benign stage (which can last for years) where they live in and off of the detritus in the bottom of the tank. If conditions decline in that aquarium, they may multiply at the same time as dirty water weakens immune systems.

While that Drs. Foster and Smith site suggests that it is nor very contagious and can be treated effectively with antibiotics, there are a number of aquarium writers and experienced aquarists who would strongly disagree.

Rainbowfish seem especially vulnerable to Fish TB and the cure rate, with one happy exception, is zero. It has been the practice to euthanize everything in the aquarium (better a clean death than a horrible, long one), tear down the tank, throw out, boil or bleach everything and then to wipe down everything in rubbing alcohol.

"Mycobacteria are especially resistant to medications because they are cased in a triple cell wall uniquely rich in waxy lipids, which repel water-soluble medications." Evidentially even bleach doesn't always get them, hence the wipe down with rubbing alcohol, which seems to open these cells.

The one successful limit to the spread of Mycobacteriosis involved using a UV (ultra-violet) unit to zap any free-floating bacteria in the water. This seemed to keep the numbers on any one fish at a level where their immune systems appear able to cope. That aquarium, in a sense, will continue its existence in a stare of siege though. :(

The lesson to me? Don't overcrowd tanks. Don't overfeed. Be as faithful as possible with the partial water changes. Those of course are the same things we try to do to prevent every other aquarium malady too. ;)

See also
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/bactin.shtml
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Myco.htm
The rainbowfish archive keeps previous messages. Unfortunately, it is several months behind.
http://www.peter.unmack.net/archive/rml/
Notice the way they use Google to search.

Another time we can talk about how open cuts on one's hand, can lead to "Fishkeeper's Finger." Aquarists can indeed catch one of these forms of TB, but initially only on their extremities.

All the best!
unc;e scott

[ Parent ]



Re: Interesting! I'd forgotten that Mycobacterium (none / 0) (#4)
by FishingForFishies on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:16:50 PM PST

thankyou very much for your advice.  It was very useful.  I will only be using the deformed fish to breed for fry that will be sold as food for other fish.  (the fry will not effect the other fish in bad ways right???)

megan/FishingForFishies
Megan Christiansen
[ Parent ]



Will Defects in parents effect breeding??? | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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