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Guppie Ratio | 5 comments (5 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Guppie Ratio (none / 0) (#2)
by FishingForFishies on Fri Jul 22, 2005 at 08:37:37 PM PST

Perhaps, if you were to start off with an older pair of guppies also.  They will still breed, but just not as much.  Older females tend to gain weight as they age.  It They will also tend to just have the look that they are older and they won't move as fast.  

Older females don't carry as many fry, and they will still look good in your tank.  In general, females will give birth every four weeks, and if you want to keep your fry number low, you can always just leave them in the tank with both parents and it will give them some live food and excerside chasing it.  It will make your adults healthier.
Megan Christiansen
[ Parent ]



Welcome to Guppylog Nika! (none / 0) (#3)
by unclescott on Sat Jul 23, 2005 at 09:16:18 AM PST

The fact that you are thinking through when you could responsibly breed guppies puts you ahead of most aquarists at any age (including me sometimes.)  Even though you have a month or so before school and may be busy with a job, sports, band or academic camp and all of that, it may still be to your advantage to select a particularly nice pair, trio (male and two females) or two pairs of guppies now. Shops are fond of the larger guppies, not young adults - which is too bad because the young adults adjust better to new homes and will live longer.

It will take your guppies 4 to 12 months to grow to salable size anyway. The most crucial time in a fish's life, especially when it comes to feeding, is the first two weeks of life. You might find it to your advantage to set up your guppies now and get a couple of batches started. OR you might want to research the project now, gather equipment over the winter and start in next spring. However, when I was a high school (history teacher) and we set up an aquarium club - at the request of a couple of great kids, I noticed that as the students became juniors, dating and jobs often became much greater priorities than an aquarium club. ;) That drove a lot of coaches crazy too, as a lot of pretty good athletes spent their next two years asking, “Do you want fries with that?”

You might find that you need two or four aquariums. Over and under stands saves space. 10-gallons are cheapest and ok. 20s are even better in that larger tanks (if you keep up your partial water changes) are more stable chemically and temperature-wise and your fish will probably grow faster. People showing guppies will often reserve as many as 10 tanks for one strain.

These are not what you are going to do. But they will give you some ideas.
See fish and fishrooms at:
http://www.ifga.org/guppy_store/gs_roebuck.htm
http://www.ifga.org/guppy_store/gs_schwab.htm
http://www.ifga.org/guppy_store/gs_shubel.htm
http://www.ifga.org/guppy_store/gs_white.htm
http://www.laurellakeguppies.com/
http://www.characin.com/home.html
http://www.alfanita.com/fishroom_e.htm

I would look for the best breeders I could find and, certainly for starters, would work with one strain. There are guppy clubs, some pretty good shops, Internet sellers (see especially the IFGA site and shop) and local aquarium societies which might all be the source of that special pair.

If you would give us the general region you live in, we might have some leads. Not trying to be too nosey or intrusive. For instance, I live in the Southern Suburbs of Chicagoland.

I found, when I was your age, that I could keep that many tanks of guppies happy. Had guppies earlier, but from about my junior year in high school through my undergraduate college years, I could "support" my hobby by selling light blue delta guppies, mollies and red swordtails to local shops, despite a pretty active social life. Sometimes the best I could do was swap them for canisters of food. Of course my parents or the places I lived at in college provided the space, electricity, water and heat which also were needed by the guppies. As an adult, by the time I add the cost for all of those things and the expense of an extra room for the fish into the equation, I'm not sure I was making that much "pure profit." But it was pretty cool as a teenager and is still fun. ;)

I think Megan has a really excellent point, that you will only want to save a batch or two of fry. One aquarium will be for your breeders, the other tanks will be for "grow out." When they begin to "sex out", you may find it to their advantage to move males to one tank and females to another.

Stan Shubel, in his Proper Care of Guppies, suggests saving the second and third or third and fourth drops of a female. She is healthiest then and the fry should be fine. If your parents drop more fry, just leave them with the folks in their tank. Some great ones may still grow up there anyway.

You want to become familiar with
setting up and cycling an aquarium,
properly equipping a couple of aquariums (get interchangeable parts and don't skimp on heaters),
seasoning water,
hatching baby brine shrimp (about the best food there is for baby fish, if they are big enough to eat newly hatch brine shrimp nauplii - and guppies are),
doing frequent water changes,
a few details of water chemistry,
"sexing guppies" or sorting them by gender
culling
establishing a sales strategy (finding shops, usually independents, who will buy guppies or at least trade for merchandise, NOT flooding the market and so on)

I would recommend reading the first several sections of the Guppylog Immediate Help links, the last couple of months of Guppylog and every book you can borrow from the library. See Breeding Livebearers "Walkthrough" in the Immediate Help section on Breeding for a list of useful books. If there is some kind of fish club near you, those can have incredible resource people.

My prejudice, but I think that Shubel's book is the best of the lot. Unfortunately it is out of print. It can be had through Inter-library loan.

Google can also be your friend. You will find stuff there using [Guppylog topic] which you will not find using the really awful search function here. If you ask the correct questions, Google will also give you a lot of other great leads.

And of course, please feel free to come back to Guppylog and ask questions and tell us how you are growing in the aquarist's craft. :)

All the best!
uncle scott

[ Parent ]



Re: Welcome to Guppylog Nika! (none / 0) (#4)
by Nika on Sat Jul 23, 2005 at 12:32:21 PM PST

Thank you for all the info!  I thought that even if someone responded, that they wouldn't really tell me mach that I didn't already know.  But everything I read really does help.  I thought about breeding over and over, and I was still pretty unsure about it, but with all the info I got, I feel better about it.  

On many websites, I have read that a lot of petstores/fish stores keep their male and female guppies together, and there is a good chance that if you buy a female, she will be full of fry already.  So, I was wondering if it would be smart (Or fish healthy) to try and find a female guppy that is full of fry and buy her.  
The thing I was concerned about, is if guppies shouldn't be kept alone.

Nika

[ Parent ]



Guppies are social, but it is not the end of the (none / 0) (#5)
by unclescott on Sat Jul 23, 2005 at 10:29:02 PM PST

world if one is kept by itself for a time. We may do this by way of giving a female room (alone) to drop her fry. Quarantine for a couple of weeks after purchase or treatment for a disease may also go that route.

The drawback to females from a shop already impregnated is that they may be inseminated, by several different males, perhaps all from strains different from herself. The offspring may be beautiful, they may be mixed in quality or a bunch of mutts. Fixing a line through those fish is difficult. It could take a while - maybe a generation, maybe years. :(

If a female was purchased along with a male of the same strain, the female could be allowed to drop her fry of uncertain parentage in the company of that one male. He would be the father of most, if not all of her fry in the next batch, according to Anne Houde, because his sperm would be more robust than that stored in her by previous (and older) matings.

Sometimes one can catch a new shipment in a shop where all of the guppies were in the same strain and are by themselves in an aquarium. Your odds of purchasing true breeding guppies is significantly increased.

Try not to purchase a female just about ready to explode with fry. Sometimes we get by with gently moving such a female. Sometimes either the female or some of the fry die.

If you are up front with some shop owners and tell them that you are looking for, let's say, blue snakeskin deltatails which breed true and promise to buy two pairs, they may in turn promise to call the phone number you give them and let you know when such an order comes in. If they are open to the idea, you might even offer a down payment, if you can spare it. Get a receipt. And be sure to stay credible by purchasing the two pairs of guppies you committed to or they will have nothing to do with such deals again.

That conversation might also be a good time to ask the owner/manager if they purchased locally raised guppies. Are there fish they are looking for which could be raised locally?

There are at least three advantages in doing that and you want them to be aware of them. Your water is more like their water and acclimation would be much less stressful. Secondly, they aren't stressed from being transported half way around the world. Thirdly, your home raised fish are less likely to be exposed to the wide range of diseases imported fish would encounter on the farm and at the wholesaler.

You might find that they don't buy fish from local breeders. Or they may take fish, but only in trade for a store credit. You will need to do the math and see if it is worth your while.

Around here, the fish most appreciated by local independent shops were angelfish. That would involve a much larger investment in equipment, time and space for you and might not be of interest.

There are also guppy shows, club contacts and auctions. Even here, one must be careful. At a general auction I purchased a pair of what were supposed to be blue glass guppies. The guy who brought them, had brought other fish which were terrific. However their fry were so disappointing, I ended up leaving the strain alone in their own tank and saving no fry.

In the blisteringly hot weather we are enduring in the Midwestern U.S. at the moment, I would not buy  through the mail. I may later when the weather moderates.

A couple Guppylog people I have sent to one of the local Guppy clubs were rebuffed when they tried to get involved. Knowing how eager most guppy clubs are to get new people involved, that was utterly stupefying (and several other adjectives). While I have had cordial relations with them in the past, I may catch another regional IFGA show and see what can be purchased there. See http://www.ifga.org/showrules.htm

Aquabid.com is the most expensive way to buy fish I know of. However in the fall some of those who show guppies will clear out some if their current breeders and show fish, so they have room to raise guppies for the next season (spring 2006). That is another possible avenue to fancy guppies which breed true.

A lot of community tank aquarists just want pretty fish in their community tank. It may be that you will find a shop looking for such fish. If so, you wouldn't have to search for lines which bred consistently. Again, ask the shopkeepers before you invest in a lot of guppies.

60 years ago, before plastic bags, before styrofoam boxes, before relatively cheap air freight, before Asian fish farms which would pay their workers a small fraction of the American minimum wage, there were American fish breeders who could sell a lot of fish to local shops and wholesalers. Most of those opportunities are gone.

I do know of some niche markets where some of the better (even legendary) shops will by from aquarists. But ask around before raising stuff nobody will buy.

All the best!
uncle scott

[ Parent ]



Guppie Ratio | 5 comments (5 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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