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Dropsy? | 5 comments (5 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: Dropsy? (none / 0) (#1)
by maggie1270 on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 04:45:59 AM PST

Who many times or how much would you say that are you feeding them daily?  If it's quite a lot, maybe cut down on the amount that you are feeding.  If you see that they're scales are protruding, then I'm afraid your suspicions may be correct.  If not, then there may be hope.
Maggie


Re: Dropsy? (none / 0) (#2)
by DaysSweetDaze on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 05:42:39 AM PST

I typically feed three times a day:  before work when I wake them up in the morning, they hardly eat at all, so maybe a flake or two per fish (or pellet, depending on what day it is);  when I get off work, I feed both tanks for five minutes each - this is when they eat a ton, with two fish consuming almost all the food I put in there;  and then once at night before bed.

I have taken to feeding them more during 'lunch' because the couple of females just seem to eat it all.  I noticed a lot of my good males are starting to just hover on the bottom picking at the rocks, and all the other fish hover at the top waiting to be fed again and chasing each other.  I was terrified I was going to starve my males out.

I have noticed no scale protrusion, and no clamping of fins.  Just that my females are HUGE... abdomens so large the actually 'tuck under' the head of the fish.

[ Parent ]



Ouch! Please look in the Quicklinks at the (none / 0) (#3)
by unclescott on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:26:43 AM PST

threads under dropsy. A couple of photo links are suggested. Tell us how your males (who don't show it as obviously as females.) According to that new (to me) book I was telling Peter about, when scales are extending, the internal organs may actually be expanding and are so messed up, it's curtains for the fish almost all of the time.

Sorry, but for you and the rest of your fish,
all the best!
u.s.

[ Parent ]



Re: Ouch! Please look in the Quicklinks at the (none / 0) (#4)
by DaysSweetDaze on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 03:11:34 PM PST

It's weird, because the swelling is always worse at night.  With one exception (my yellow/black female is always huge) the fish look almost normal in the morning, and swell up by around 8-9pm at night.  Odd.

Yes, my guppies do look like the ones in the photo on PeterW's article, but not nearly as large... that's why I was worried.  I'm just so confused as to where it came from, and why it's in both tanks.  I have had no new fish in either in weeks now.  Also, the fish are swimming and eating.  Alot.

I currently have four males, and two are doing splendidly.  The other two (unfortunately my best males) aren't as good.  One is hunched, and has become slow and sluggish, but is still eating and swimming around.  My best cobra male 'shimmies' and hovers at the bottom in one spot.  Hasn't eaten in days.  Both of these are the ones that were really frisky and playing in the bubbles before.  
Is that a sign of male dropsy?
They were also both rather old when I aquired them.  The store said they might be as much as a year or more old.  I've had them both for a little over a month.  

Does Pimafix actually work with Dropsy?  I've used that and Melafix a lot and actually only saved one fish from illness... it doesn't even work for me with tail rot.

[ Parent ]



I wonder if problems (swelling) are worse at night (none / 0) (#5)
by unclescott on Fri Feb 04, 2005 at 09:26:04 PM PST

because there is less oxygen in aquaria after the lights go out - at least if you have plants. Your filter is still going at night?

Peter W, (also Terry Fairfield, Burgess, Bailey, and Excell) and other authorities will suggest that bacteria and other organisms which might cause dropsy-like conditions are always in the tanks. They are largely benight until sonething upsets the fish and or lowers the water quality to a certain critical point.

There is actually a pretty long catalogue of critters that cause similar conditions, which is why once in a great while a fish can be rescued from dropsy, while usually they are so damaged from the injuries to internal organs, that they will die anyway. Fairfield surprised me by suggesting that bacteria are usually opportunistic parasites, but not anywhere nearly as damaging or effective parasites as the worms or crustaceans that give them their entry into the animal. He also suggested that there would be virtually no bacterial attacks, if the water was always kept at an optimal level.

Ironically as your guppies were eating more, it may have been necessary to change more water. When they stop feeding or hover by the bottom, like you describe, it is time to start doing more water changes, even daily 20-40% water changes if you can prepare water that fast.

This story has been spun before on GL, so if it looks familiar to anyone reading, skip it. ;)

We had mature five "dwarf neon" rainbowfish in a 20-gallon tank, when a family emergency took most of our attention. About ten days later, as we caught up on work and home responsibilities, more could be done for those rainbows than drop a little flake food in the tank. In the meantime one of the five had begun shimmying in the middle level of the tank. The next day he was "parked" on the bottom of the tank and one of the females was then shimmying in the middle of the tank. The third day the male was dead, the female was huddled on the tank bottom and another member of the former quintette was shimmying.

Fortunately we had a 32 gallon container of our tap water seasoned (in that it had sat for two weeks). Normally having a little sodium chloride in it is not appreciated all that much, but it seemed like a good thing at the time. (One of the reasons that shops use salt is that it delays nitrate and nitrite poisoning in crowded tanks. Notice, I didn't say stop it, just maybe put it off, maybe until a customer buys a fish with burned gills.

By the time of the first 40% water change, the female was dead, the shimmying fish was on the bottom and the fourth adult was shimmying. The day after the first water change, the shimmyer was ok and feeding again, lightly because that was all I dared feed them. The fish that was on the bottom of the tank was back to shimmying. There was another 40% water change. The third day of water changes, the three surviving adults were, at least tentatively, cruising the tank. A 40% water change was made anyway that day and the next. The next week they got their usually scheduled water change. A couple days later there were small fry cruising the surface. Since a spawning fish is usually a "happy" and healthy fish, life in that 20 had returned to normal.

That was an unusually quick success associated with dealing with health problems by changing water in a disciplined manner. Would that things already worked out so neatly. But it suggests that water changes in and of themselves may enable a fish's immune system to reassert itself. Without water changes, medicines may be useless. The junk and bloom of organisms in the water both need to the thinned out.

Another Fairfieldism: use of a diatom filter may filter a lot of Ich, maybe velvet and other larger organisms out of the water. Water still must be changed to improve the H2OQ (water quality), but the fish are given some grace time to recover before their gills are smothered with parasites.

Since the mass of the adult population had dropped 40% in that rainbow tank, there was room for more fry on the surface and lower waters. That same adult/ fry continuum can be seen with guppies and other fishes too. Populations will reach an equilibrium. "Something" (culling by the aquarist, cannibalism, moving fish to another tank, improved water quality or epidemics) will keep the fish population at a level where some can thrive.

More than enough fry, for the conditions will be eaten. More than enough adults for the conditions and health issues will thin them out

So the first step is to improve the water with frequent, partial changes. Then a skin conditioner  (Melafix or Primafix) and/or a medication (anti-biotic in this case) might be used. But all of that is not designed to entirely cure the disease really, just to help the fish to heal itself.

By the way, a couple of days ago, I discovered a couple small fry, in a small, out of the way container, which have dropsy and will be put down with that clove oil. Even young fish can be hurt by neglect. You are not the only one of us to encounter this. :)

All the best!
u.s.

[ Parent ]



Dropsy? | 5 comments (5 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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