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Distended abdomen but... | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

I have to agree with you (none / 0) (#2)
by maggie1270 on Mon May 17, 2004 at 05:08:04 PM PST

(yet again)

Miskairal you should try to feed him some antibiotic meds. I've heard of better success with medicated food than with the water treatments for dropsy.
Maggie
[ Parent ]

Bummer (none / 0) (#3)
by miskairal on Mon May 17, 2004 at 07:19:12 PM PST

He's still eating this morning when I got up and still bloated so I got him out into a bowl and fed him a pea so I could watch and make sure he ate it, which he did, well some of it. When I got in from milking I did a 20% water change despite it only being 5 days since the last one at which time Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates were all normal.

Thanks for your replies!
I can't get antibiotics before tomorrow and then only if the vet has it. I intended getting in a supply of treatments next time I have a day off as Mum has found a good pet shop but that looks as though it may be a couple of months away now.

I guess my beautiful fish may die all because I work 7 days a week and our nearest town is too tiny to stock much. I will get something ordered in but probably not quick enough.

Saddened
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]

Good Luck (none / 0) (#4)
by maggie1270 on Tue May 18, 2004 at 02:09:23 PM PST

Once my fish have shown the signs of Dropsy they have not survived. I've tried Maracyn II and all sorts of antibiotics but I think by the body is already shutting down.
Maggie
[ Parent ]

Re: Good Luck (none / 0) (#5)
by miskairal on Tue May 18, 2004 at 07:21:26 PM PST

Thanks maggie,

Should I treat the whole tank? I assume so.

My vet told me to try the tetracycline powder I already have on hand and use for the goats. She gave me a dose rate but was uncertain how I treat a whole tank. I found a site that suggested using 10mg per litre of water or mix it in the food. I'm quite happy to try and treat the sick fish this way but am nervous about treating a whole tankful of fish that so far appear healthy with a treatment dose that is not really certain.

I tried to buy a hospital tank in town - can get the tank but no heater to fit it and it's winter weather here now. I feel like I'm just running up against brick walls when it comes to fish. Everybody seems to have the opinion that they are just fish, why do you bother?

I bother because I believe all pet owners have a responsibility to keep their pets healthy and because I can't stand to watch a sick fish swimming beside me all day.

If anyone here would like to give their opinion on how to treat the whole tank.....

thanks
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]

Do you have space to separate the bloated male for (none / 0) (#6)
by unclescott on Tue May 18, 2004 at 08:55:23 PM PST

treatment? If he is contagious, that also removes him from the community.

Treatment of the tank, along with partial water changes, might help insure that those fish didn't come down with dropsy - which is a collection of internal bacterial things.

Sometimes we are surprised by a case of dropsy where previously our water changes and fish care had been sufficient to avoid all such problems. Maybe the increasing size of the fish in that tank makes a difference in the biological load which must be dealt with.

On the other hand, will the tetracycline also kill the "good guy" bacteria in the tank's nitrogen cycle? Some antibiotics do kill off the nitrogen cycle. I looked at a couple of limited sources and just don't know the answer to that. There is a chance that may happen.

http://www.uoguelph.ca/OAC/env/symposium/abstracts.htm
suugests it may not happen with ordinary use.

See the following for more articles:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=Oxytetracycline+Tetracycline+%27nitrogen+cycle%22

Is Oxytetracycline a more recently developed medication in the same family of drugs as tetracycline? Burgess, Bailey and Excell recommend it for its versatility. Their injections or feeding of it don't sound realistic. They also recommend a 5-day bath at 20-100 mg/liter. (Is it just me or does that sound awfully imprecise?)

If it seems that your fish are ok, it may be best to kill the infected fish and maintain as best as you can will pursuing your 7 (!) day work schedule. One aquarist probably will not make the ultimate difference, but some medical people are concerned about the public creating antibiotic resistant diseases (mostly on themselves - the human population) through free and easy administration of anti-biotics.

"Some time back" we had some guests who were students at a local medical school. I mentioned that aquarists sometimes used medications which were better known to the medical community. I mentioned that I had used tetracycline with some of my fish once. Previously mentioned was the promiscuous enthusiasm those fish had for breeding. I noticed a slight "look" passing from one student to another.

Later I learned that a major use (at the time) of tetracycline was in treating sexually transmitted diseases among humans. I wonder if they were kidding on the side about the promiscuous livebearers and killies. ;)

[ Parent ]

Re: Do you have space to separate (none / 0) (#7)
by miskairal on Tue May 18, 2004 at 09:38:31 PM PST

Thanks uncle scott,

After posting the last bit I decided that treatment shouldn't wait so I managed to find a clear plastic container (which I scrubbed well with straight water) and have the sick fish floating in the tank. He can still see all his mates so may be less stressed as he dies :( I added some antibiotic powder to some food and fed him then added the powder to his water at the 10mg/litre rate. He doesn't seem stressed by it so maybe I should go for the 20-100mg rate?? Yes it is a bit short on precision :))

I then added Melafix to the main tank as it was a safer option and may prevent any more infections until I have time to find out more about the oxytetracycline.

I've been using the oxytetracycline since 1996 for goat kids to prevent bloat would you believe. Despite a lot of effort on my vet's part, the cause of the bloat was never determined and when the last kid died screaming in his surgery in agony, he threw up his arms and said Here try this and handed me the oxytet. I've tried not using it as I'm not an advocate of indiscriminate use of antibiotics but it always ends in tragedy.

Tetracycline and promiscuity - ahhh there's the answer to my 2.8 kids per goat problem :)) I can tell you though that the fish with dropsy ain't too promiscuous at the moment. I've discovered I accidentally put a very young female in that tank too which I now can't remove so I hope she survives - I may have to have 2 floating dishes.

The bacteria may have arrived with the creek water or the snail that was in there for all of 30 minutes. The affected fish is one that Katie bought so I don't know how old he is but greater than 5 months. All the males are go, go, go all the time - maybe he just stressed himself out too much and now bacteria that came with the original fish purchases can shine through??

Thanks again uncle scott
cheers
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]

Wow! You got him to eat it! Congratulations! (none / 0) (#8)
by unclescott on Wed May 19, 2004 at 01:45:29 AM PST

B,B & E suggest mixing it into food at a rate of 50-75 mg per k of food per day, possibly carrying the treatment though 15 days.

Guppies eat a k of food a day?

I am sorry about the kids. That sounds so sad.

You may be onto something about aging guppies and vulnerability to dropsy - and other maladies. Certainly aging decreases the ability of most creatures to withstand various maladies. :(

Tomorrow/ later today, I'll try to share something learned from the RML about putting down fish as painlessly as possible. It may be that that male, cheerfully eating in his plastic quarantine is contented to go about the remainder of his live there. If you can deal with that situation so be it. :)

I do think that you were wise in removing him from the larger community.

I was pondering what it would be like if a bunch of us were raised by fish. They would have culled me ages ago. ;)

[ Parent ]

Re: Wow! You got him to eat it! Congratulations! (none / 0) (#9)
by miskairal on Wed May 19, 2004 at 06:46:08 PM PST

He ate small amounts frequently. I used the granules I buy as part of their diet as it was easier to mix in than with flakes. I just coated it as best I could with the antibiotic powder. A kilo??? Whoah, that would be a mighty big fish. I guessed that maybe a guppy might be 2 grams as a teaspoon of most products is 5 grams???? He always seemed to be starving and even ate for me this morning at 4.30am. I came in from milking and typed a piece I will add as a new diary entry and you'll see there that he died while I was typing.

I've more or less decided to stick with the Melafix treatment for the moment as all the other fish look helathy so far. The melafix may prevent problems but then I have to think about getting rid of the bacteria???

So you'd be culled you think :)))
I reckon a lot of us humans would be culled actually. With our ever increasing ability to breed despite our many health problems, I can't begin to imagine the human race in 1000 years time.

OK, better get this other bit posted before I get disconnected.
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]

Distended abdomen but... | 9 comments (9 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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