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Coral | 6 comments (6 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)
G'Day Miskairal ! (none / 0) (#1)
by unclescott on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 09:54:53 AM PST

Keeping coral healthy and well fed in a marine set-up is a whole lot more challenging (or at least expensive) that keeping guppies. ;)

Keeping dead coral in a freshwater tank can be given a couple of spins. As with most everything in life, there can be good news and/or bad news. :)

Some people don't want to encourage unnecessary harvesting of coral. On the other hand, if it washed ashore or has been in the family for years, use it.

There is also a "desert coral" available in garden centers around here. I worry about where this is being mined out west, but it doesn't seem to threaten living coral reefs.

I notice that it can cut fish (guppy) fins. I wouldn't keep Corys around sharp coral and I would never keep Corys over coral gravel. Corys without whiskers either lost them because of the bacteria in dirty water or they were abraded by edged gravel.

I would never, never want to use it with tropical fish from soft water habitats, often rain forest. The dissolving of the coral could create real problems.

On the other hand, coral gravel is sometimes used by rainbowfish people. They find their fry do better in water with a slight alkaline tendency. There are even killies - surprisingly, young Epiplatys lamottei and not so surprisingly North American Fundulus and Mediterranean Aphanius - which do well in such water.

I have used tufa rock to buffer Rift Lake tanks. That stuff is basically the artistic build up of calcium and other minerals on the shores of alkaline lakes in places like the SW US. Probably Oz has similar places.

When starting out, I had a pair of the rainforest Aphyosemion striatum in a tank with the Tufa rock. Next to it I had a possible pair of the Rift Lake Julidochromis ornatus. Neither tank yielded any spawns.

After reading about their habitats, the DOH! factor set in. The tufa rock was placed in the Julie tank and a small tap water change was made. The striatum had a massive water change and then the gradual addition of 20% rainwater a couple of times.

Within two weeks there were fry in both tanks. The other care, including the feeding of some live food, hadn't changed. In that case, a look at their native waters made all the difference in the world.

You are pretty faithful with water changes and probably the coral would add a few trace elements and not hurt the guppies. But please  consider my little blurb on mystery deaths associated with the accumulation of minerals in a guppy tank.

Winter Mystery Deaths (Ask Guppylog, Care Tips)
posted on 02/07/2004 15:30:19 PST

At a certain point there is an important chemical draw back to having a higher pH in a tank. Chemically inclined Listizens, please correct any gaffes I make in explaining.

Freshwater fish actually release a lot of their urine through their gills. (That is another reason why funky water burns their gills and inhibits their breathing.) What is mostly released is ammonia. At lower pH levels it turns into the less toxic ammonium, which like Nitrates and nitrites is still dangerous if a lot of it is present (not removed via water changes). Above 7.0 it remains the much more deadly ammonia. As pHs rise above 7.8 ammonia becomes even more dangerous to the fish. (I really don't "know" why, but am accepting the testimony of several others on Killietalk.)

That is why coral in a tank can be a threat if we get casual about water changes. Plants also function more effectively near 7.0 than way above or below that. Perhaps the phrase, often found in aquarium books and articles on fish care, "so long as extremes in pH are avoided" does indeed have a pretty widespread application. :)

All the best,
Scott Davis



Re: G'Day Miskairal ! (none / 0) (#2)
by miskairal on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 06:43:26 PM PST

Hi Scott and thanks for the insights.

I didn't think to ask where the shopping centre aquarium keepers obtained the coral but no doubt they had permission being in such a public place and with Australia's very strict rules on taking flora and fauna from the wild.

This new tank I set up (in which I wanted to put the coral) has a pH that is swinging a lot. I've added Aquarium salt which might help????  I'm STILL waiting ont eh test kits I ordered :(

On arriving home after leaving the fish with no food for 48 hours and no light I discovered the 3/4 black male has tail rot of some sort. He is well and racing around but his tail has worsened in the 24 hours since I got home so I started treating the tank this morning. I'm going in to see my vet tomorrow as the pet shop here is very limited in drugs they carry and don't seem to have any of the drugs mentioned here on Guppylog. I had a choice of Melafix or acriflavine and chose the latter

With all the above I think I will leave the coral as a side decoration for now. Mum said she found it in a second hand shop years ago.

So far I have been extremely faithful on water changes and usually do them about every 6 days to fit in round work obligations but boy is it hard to gravel vacc round fry that are trying to zip up the tube or nibble on my fingers. Oh and the other thing I wanted to tell you is that the plants are all flowering sending these great long stems up and out of the tanks with dull little yellow flowers on the end. Oh and also one more thing before I go :)  I had to take the little charcoal bag I made out of the canister filter for the treatment and the water flow is now much higher and the fish are deliberately swimming in it and letting themselves get pushed around. They play in it for a while then go back up to the quieter end of the tank briefly then come back again to the filter. I commented to my husband the other night how I wish us humans had as much energy as the fish and his reply "Do you only want to live 2 years do you?"

miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Interesting thought of your husband's! (none / 0) (#3)
by unclescott on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 09:01:00 PM PST

I wonder how we would live if we knew we had just two years (with good care) to live. :)

Salt will not influence your hardness one way or the other. Sea water is very alkaline, but the elements which buffer it so high are things like calcium and magnesium.

Salt will significantly (sometimes hugely) raise the TDS or total dissolved solids in a tank though. All sodium chloride and no other elements can be fatal both to freshwater and - I would guess - even marine fishes after a time.

TDS is often measured by meters which really are measuring the electrical conductivity of water. There is a rough correlation between the two.

Now I've recently learned that there are a number of items in the water which are neutrally charged and not easily measured short of using a few 5,000 USD gismos to do that. Even some fish wastes may not be measurable! At least they don't contribute to hardness or TSD. (I can hear Guppygirl saying, "Go get an ammonia kit.")

I guess that is one of the reasons why we just need to keep changing water. There are probably always going to be some variables we will either not know about or not be able to measure.

If that wildly fluctuating tank, which has a pH a degree higher late in the day than the pH at night or in the early morning, has a lot of growing plants in it, don't worry. When the photosynthesis process is really cooking during the day, the plants will take a lot of CO2 out of the tank. At night, they may actually release a little CO2 and the pH will drop. This is not uncommon in ponds and aquaria with a robust plant population. I believe that some small bodies of water in the wild may do that too.

Congratulations on the flowering Aponogetons. You may find that they are NOT self fertilizing. Some books suggest taking a small paintbrush and rubbing one, than the other inflorescence, er bloom.

That never worked for my Aponogetons and me. I did discover that by rather inelegantly rubbing two blooms together they would fertilize one another. I had crooked blooms, but fertile seeds. ;)

Is it your wet (or wetter) season now? Different species respond differently to annual cycles.

Karl Rataj's book published in the 1970s by TFH has some interesting info on raising them. Christel Kasselmann has quite an essay on types of habitats and reproduction.

By the way, if your local Aponogeton spike throws up two separate flower spikes, that local population is probably an exotic from Madagascar. Single spikes are found all over Asia and, presumably, Australia. However there is a Vietnamese species with a double bloom. (Rats, so much to learn.)

South Africa's Apon. distachyos, which has become naturalized all over the world, has quite an elaborate multiple bloom. I think it was listed as an exotic in Oz (and California too).
By the way, Kasselmann's book features a magnificent shot of Australia's Apon. elongatus var latifolia. It is listed as from the North, NE and Eastern parts of Australia, so it might be your baby. :)

If you could get a couple photos of the blooms, that might enable you to identify them.

And they are a heck of a lot easier to photograph than the guppies. ;)

All the best!
u.s.


[ Parent ]



Re: Aponogetons (none / 0) (#5)
by miskairal on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 02:03:35 AM PST

Ahh found the flower at thekrib (it's ammazing how search results change every time I do a Google - I know I Googled for Apon. weeks ago).

Hopefully this link will be linkified so click here :) if you are interested.

My flower is yellow instead of the pinkish colour in the pic. I can't find Elongatus latifolia anywhere but I think you may be right.

BTW - The world would not exist as we know it if we could only live 2 years would it? Would we have to work or could I just bludge on a beautiful pacific island?

Hey - I didn't even notice your use of the word "g'day" first time round but when I came back to read it again I realized. Now I'll have to teach you some Aussie slang :) I've been told Americans have trouble understanding an Australian saying the word water - apparently we pronounce it warder? We are very lazy with our speech. (And I talk too much)

miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Photography (none / 0) (#4)
by miskairal on Wed Apr 28, 2004 at 09:27:49 PM PST

I tried photographing my guppies but they turned out just a blurry mess on my good 35mm Minolta camera and the old digital is not good enough. I'm sure however, that I can photograph the flowers which are single spiked. Do you mean they will only multiply if I rub the spikes together? If so, do I do this over the water?

The "Aquarium" salt contains sodium, calcium, magnesium and chloride which are all supposed to aid in keeping fish healthy but I hoped would help stabilize the pH by raising the tds (have I got that right?)

Oohps - thunder - storm coming so must get off my pc. Actually we are meant to be finished our wet season but it's been drizzling for 2 days (makes for very unpleasant milking conditions)and our temp is down to 72°F which I consider a little on the cool side but it's given me a chance to make sure the fish tank heaters are all working well.

Now I just have to figure out how to get hold of the books you mentioned :)

Thanks Scott!!
miskairal
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]



Fertilizing spikes may be facilitated by being (none / 0) (#6)
by unclescott on Thu Apr 29, 2004 at 08:57:07 AM PST

in and out of the water. A certain humidity level should also be maintained if they are to develop seeds.

By the way, did I steer you to the following?

http://www.australianrainbowfish.com/aquaticslife/plants/aponogeton/aponog_t.html

They mention new and established species in Oz and some of the river systems they are in. Perhaps your stream, if connected to one of those drainages, would also allow for I.D.ing your Aponogeton.

I read Kasselmann's essay on Aponogetons while going to sleep last night. (Retention was wayyyyy down.) She mentions four different habitats (temporary pond, permanent pond, temporary stream/ river, permanent stream/river. While some Apon. species are found in a couple of habitats and others just don't pigeon-hole easily, that might help.

Also, she notes in some stream systems, the plants flower and have submerged leaves while the stream water is clear in what may be the dry season. In the rainy season the water goes turbid. The plants may develop all surface leaves. Or they may retreat back into their bulb for a resting period.

If yours are the one which have a resting period, she suggests an interesting strategy to help them go dormant.

They are amazing plants, quite diverse and able to endure some pretty challenging habitats. And Kasselmann & that Austalian Aponogeton paper suggests there are a lot more than most of us would have guessed.

More later, it's a great day here but we have a storm front and miserable weather predicted for later too. First chore - clean up the remains of a venerable metal framed tank which blew off of a stand last night in what must have been quite a wind.

Kasselmann and Rataj are pretty expensive. I'd check you inter-library loan system or what ever aquarium club library exists in Queensland first. I know there is a club in the Queensland, it may be a zillion kilometers away.

[ Parent ]



Coral | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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