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Winter Mystery Deaths | 12 comments (12 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: I think you're reading it correctly Nate. (none / 0) (#5)
by Nate on Sun Feb 08, 2004 at 01:23:39 PM PST

US- I'm still laughing at a mental picture of Dr.Charles exhorting on the proper proceedure to pull the chain. I can see  him doing an hour lecture on it, facial expressions and all.

You bring up one interesting point--that being the introduction of plants into the mix. It's been obvious for years that plants absorb ammonia directly, and rather immediately assuming the plant is hungry. So well planted tanks negate the need for cycling.
But I had never thought about the effect of plants on disovled solids, minerals, etc. How much--and which ones--do they eat?
Guess I should dig out the test kits and check in to it--unless you already have a handle on the research.  :-)
And another thought--- I have several tanks with dirt substrates. Does dirt filter solids out of the water? Does dirt release solids into the water?  Or both, depending on....?

Nate

[ Parent ]



"exhorting on the proper proceedure to (none / 0) (#6)
by unclescott on Sun Feb 08, 2004 at 07:23:27 PM PST

pull the chain." You must be familiar with time and motion studies. But Charles is a chemist, not an engineer or a physicist, so I guess we can't tease about Ph D = pile it higher and deeper. ;)

I don't think in most cases we will be able to pull most of the organic wastes from the water with plants. Maybe a pair of guppies in a planted tank with regular water changes or one of those Aquatic Gardens with a low fish load will work, but it is hard because we "have eyes bigger than our stomachs when at auctions or the LFS. Or the guppies keep on having guppies. ;)

On the other hand, there are some neat, fairly inexpensive things which can be done. Several rain forest and or marsh plants can grow with "wet feet". Their roots are in the water, the rest of them is extending out of the aquarium (of course increasing the risks of jumping fish and evaporation).

The beauty of some of those plants (Spaths, Philodendrum and even water sprite, water lettuce, and the much hated duck weed) is that oxygen and CO2 exchanges are much greater out of the water than in it. A FAMA article on the topic of emergent plants (among other things) by Diana Walstad, suggested that this gas exchange might be something like 100 times greater than in the water.

Ms. Walstad, by the way, has written a book -Ecology of the Planted Aquarium, C. 1999 - which suggests how one can put together a pretty good planted system without spending one's college fund on it. She even shows how soil can be used under the gravel as a carbon source so one doesn't have to spend a fortune on a CO2 unit or build one of the risky DIY units.

As is so often the case, I'm soon to be in over my head on the topic. See if you can borrow her book through interlibrary loan.

I think you will be intrigued by some of her ideas. As a killinut, I'm a little edgy because most of her research and research sources are with temperate, hardwater plants, because tropical killies may not come from those waters. Guppies do come from waters with more of a "Midwest American" mineral river blend somewhat along the line of a percentage of components typically 31.9% bicarbonate, 12.4% sulfate, 8.6% chloride, 16.6% calcium, 14.5% silica, 7% sodium, 4.5% magnesium and 2.5% potassium. (Thanks to a recent killitalk essay by chemist David Koran.)

What she says may indeed have significance for guppy people keeping their charges in a planted tank. If one is raising a lot of fish and is under a deadline set by a show schedule, I don't think that kind of tank would be useful.

It's been a few years since I read "the plant book without a lot of plant photos". If someone is more recently familiar with her ideas, would you please help us out?

[ Parent ]



Re: "exhorting on the proper proceedure to (none / 0) (#8)
by Nate on Mon Feb 09, 2004 at 07:20:32 PM PST

US- I have Walstad's book. Only problem is finding the time to read it rather than using it for a quick "resource" manual. Another source is   naturalaquariums.com   owned and operated by the ALA's webmistress.
I have 60-70 tanks of gups and do not have a filter (other than plants) on any of them. They are much like any other set up--the heavier the fish load, the more often you need to change water. My biggest advantage with the plant filtered tanks is the disease problems I had with the filtered tanks is virtually gone.
Walstad has a section on floating plants and my memory sez your memory is pretty good. Air exchange is much improved with floaters as is ammonia uptake.
Now if I could just find a market for all that duckweed....................
Nate

[ Parent ]


http://www.naturalaquariums.com/ (none / 0) (#9)
by unclescott on Wed Feb 11, 2004 at 03:34:03 AM PST

is a site i haven't been to in a long time. It is better than ever. Always had it bookmarked in my older computers. I've gone to it for inspiration numerous times.

Rhonda is a remarkable person. Active in a lot of areas of life, she also does a lot of Net stuff, obviously has her fish and plants and a very full plate as a parent.

[ Parent ]



Winter Mystery Deaths | 12 comments (12 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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