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I'm lossing a guppy a day | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Re: The good news about such a treatment is that t (none / 0) (#15)
by PeterW on Thu Dec 30, 2004 at 10:26:31 PM PST

Praziquantel kills just about everything else.  Nematodes and camallanus are specifically not on the list of worms it kills on the bottle I have.  My experiences tell me that it is true.  I treated my male guppy tank (with an active camallanus infestation) twice with no effect.  With levamisole, there were dead worms all over the bare glass bottom the next morning.  That never happened with praziquantel (prazi-pro).

Yes, I know about the one that disappeared.  It was a capsule form of piperazine citrate, packaged as "Pipzine".  You could buy it in packets of 5 or 100 capsules.  The last time I checked, you could still buy them in small quantities on aquabid from people with a stockpile.

Levamisole is supposedly a bit harsh on the fish.  But it is nothing compared to the worms.  I believe piperazine citrate is actually the best camlallanus dewormer (least harsh side effects).

As an aside:
"Viagra is a synthetic heterocyclic piperazine derivative. Other pharmaceuticals derived from piperazine include antihistamines, antidepressants and motion-sickness drugs. An aqueous solution of piperazine is commonly used in the manufacture of polyamide resins, epoxy curing agents, and urethanes applied as spray foams, building panels, elastomers, and is utilized for automobile and appliance construction. In a restricted-use pesticide (marketed as triforine) it is labeled to treat a wide variety of food crops, cotton, tobacco, and many horticultural species for fungal infections."

Piperazine certainly seems to get around...

[ Parent ]



Re: The good news about such a treatment is that t (none / 2) (#16)
by PeterW on Thu Dec 30, 2004 at 10:53:06 PM PST

BTW: unclescott: prazi-pro is simply praziquantel, no other active ingredients.  It lists its effectiveness as:
  • Flukes
  • Tapeworm
  • Flatworm
  • Turbellarians

Note, no roundworms or nematodes.

I looked up some of the other anti-parasite treatments I have..

Jungle's Anti-parasite medicated fish food contains:

  • metronidazole
  • praziquantel
  • levamisole
Jungle's effective list adds nematodes and protozoa to the list.  It seems they added levamisole for nematodes (eg: camallanus) and metronidazole for protozoa. I dont see why they'd add levamisole if it was already taken care of by praziquantel.

I did some more searches and it seems common (even for humans) to use something else for nematodes, alongside praziquantel.

I feel confident in my assertion that praziquantel is useless for camallanus.

References:

opt=Abstract (use albendazole for nematodes, along with praziquantel for trematode and cestodes, and metronidazole for protozoan infections)

The last one spells out what each is for.

[ Parent ]



Wow! Thank you for the info. Though I'm glad (none / 0) (#17)
by unclescott on Fri Dec 31, 2004 at 08:26:59 AM PST

it has been a while since breakfast! ;)

You got more on Jungle's medicated food than I could get in an e-mail to them on the more conventional anti-worming med. !

It is wise to underestimate, rather than over estimate which a treatment may do. It is curious what they omitted

Again, it is interesting (and probably logical) that our tropical fish meds are spin offs of things prepared to help human.

That Merck site looks searchable without a membership. Perhaps it has even more to offer.

All the best!
u.s.

[ Parent ]



Re: Wow! Thank you for the info. Though I'm glad (none / 1) (#18)
by PeterW on Fri Dec 31, 2004 at 03:42:46 PM PST

Heh.  One good thing to figure out early on is what the alternate names and species are for common names.

eg: tapeworm => cestode; flatworm => trematode; flukes, flagellates, hemamita => protozoan; nematodes are roundworms, etc.

That way when you're cross referencing drugs vs bugs, you can keep your sanity.  Or lose less of it anyway.

Human and livestock medical info seems to be a pretty good source of info about what these drugs are effective against.  For example, praziquantel is primarily for flatworms and relatives (trematodes), and protozoa (including flagellates) (cestodes).

Metronidazole seems to have several properties including antibiotic and anti-protozoa (cestode).  I believe its the drug-of-choice for the heximita (hole-in-the-head) protozoa (cestode).  The fact that it has antibiotic properties would make it extra useful in fish worming medications to reduce the risk of internal infections after any intestinal worms detach.

Levamisole is also an anti-cancer drug in humans as well as being used as an immune system stimulant.  In humans, it is sometimes used alongside praziquantel for the stimulation effect to enable praziquantel to work better.

For worms, Levamisole is a paralyzing agent.  They are often expelled alive.. hence the need to vacuum them up. (eep! I wasn't aware of this! See http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/levamis.htm under Pharmacology)

Praziquantel works by disturbing the worm's internal membranes.  They kinda self destruct by leaking into themselves.  Roundworms don't have the same membranes.

Another example.. a cat worming site:
"Some worming medications are effective against both roundworm and tapeworm, while others are only effective against one or the other."

"Drontal cat TM (Bayer)
Contains pyrantel (active against roundworm) and praziquantel (active against tapeworm), in a tablet form."

There's another reference for praziquantel not being effective against for roundworms (implicitly nematodes).  But that wouldn't show up on a search for camallanus or nematodes.

Another good guide is my wife's many-thousand-page pharmacutical guide and cross-reference. :-)

[ Parent ]



Re: Wow! Thank you for the info. Though I'm glad (none / 0) (#19)
by miskairal on Sat Jan 01, 2005 at 12:12:31 AM PST

Great stuff for the QuickLinks page!
--
Repeat after me,
I will read the Immediate Help
[ Parent ]


I'm lossing a guppy a day | 19 comments (19 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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