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No news, good news? | 5 comments (5 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Your guppy's situation seems particularly (none / 0) (#1)
by unclescott on Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 09:32:59 PM PST

hard to understand and you seem to be taking good care of them. I was reflecting on it the last few days and maybe this will be of some use. Maybe not too. ;)

Do you know if your guppies were raised in the Far East? Evidentally they add salt at an irregular, but irresponsible level to their ponds/ tanks.

You might check with the shop for origins. Also ask if they have had similar problems with the guppies. Ask what they are doing for their guppies if they have been having problems.

Please see

Diaries
Mollies, Salt and Asian Imports    
Care Tips
By unclescott [
from the minerology department,
Posted on Sat Jan 31st, 2004 at 15:06:50 PST

The often fatal shock which East Asian (Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia...) guppies go through when quickly moved from their super salty water to regular hard water in the US has caused some shops to quite selling them.

I have heard that Dutch aquarists will catch rainwater as a preferred aquarium water. If your guppies have an Asian origin it may be that you not only want to add your dose of cichlid salts (or Ro Right ...) but also a significant quantity of sodium chloride (but not table salt with silicates which keep it pouring, but also coat gills) to your water.

If your fish have been acclimated to low mineral water after having been shipped in that water with a high salt concentration, you may not want to suddenly shift them to another stressful change into a new water chemistry. But that may explain the problems.

I think you know to do this, but for those lurking, there are some careful steps designed to keep the stress and shock levels at a minimum while adjusting new fish to your tank.

To make their acclimation as smooth as possible:

1. Pour most of the shop water out of the fish bag or leave the fish in a jar with just a little of the shop water.

2. Put a little tank water in the bag (or covered jar) - as much as the water already in the bag.

3. Wait 20-30 minutes, pour some water out,

4. Again put about as much tank water in the bag as was there and wait another 20-30 minutes. (Go check Guppylog.)

(They should be pretty used to the new water chemistry by now.)

5. Pour ALL the water though a net into a garbage bucket. Or if you have to, put you hand over the bag opening and slowly release all the shop/bag water into a bucket. (The fish may bring some disease organisms into the tank on their bodies, but why pour so many more in with the water?)

6. Gently drop your fish, minus any water, into their quarantine tank or new home.

Tough fish like guppies can be acclimated in 30-60 minutes. Touchy marine fish may take half a day.

All the best!
uncle scott



Re: Your guppy's situation seems particularly (none / 0) (#2)
by marijke on Wed Oct 27, 2004 at 01:53:41 AM PST

Thanks for thinking with us! ;)

It is very good possible the shop sells Asian guppies. It is quite common (so I've been told) to sell them.
My DH is visiting the pet shop at this very moment (for catfood) and he'll take a good look at the tank there. Yesterday I've noticed no less than 4 dead guppies there so I have decided to buy no more guppies there (the schooltank will deliver it! But not until the situation in our own tank is stable).

About using sodium chloride: I didn't do that, but I've heard: don't use kitchen salt but sea salt.

The 2 females are still alive, very quiet (are females always more quiet than male?), but alive. I've forgotten to ask my DH to buy some brine shrimp too, I'll do that this afternoon. It's good for the water and it's an easy way to find out if the fishes are eating well.

Again, thanks for the thinking!
Greetings, Marijke (The Netherlands)
[ Parent ]



Oh! About brine shrimp! (none / 0) (#3)
by unclescott on Wed Oct 27, 2004 at 09:14:06 AM PST

One of the attractions of using live or frozen brine shrimp is that being marine - actually hyper-saline - creatures, they are very unlikely to carry freshwater diseases. That is why some foods grown in fresh water are especially useful with marine fish too.

However, I'd bet dinner at a good restaurant (at least a couple steps up from - choke - McDonalds) that dead brine shrimp could cause an excellent environment for velvet (Oodinium or Piscinoodinium species) to bloom. Then we have adult fish covered with a sheen of tiny dots. Fry immediately have clamped tails and then go away. So please don't let uneaten b.s. accumulate in a tank and decay.

That is also why I carry on about having small pond snails in a fry tank and, as a matter of fact in my livebearers tanks. I even leave snails in killie tanks, although in the tanks with de-mineralized water the snails don't fair too well.

Brine shrimp do have carotenes which help with the fish's colors. Their shells can act as a laxative. However when one considers the meat to weight ratio, other foods may have more nutrition per unit. If you have a good brine shrimp supply, just feed a little more shrimp.

Bran shrimp should clear the fish out pretty quickly too. ;)

Lightly salted tanks are useful with fry, not only because the salt seems to offer a little protection against velvet, but helps the freshly hatched baby brine shrimp, bbs, to live a couple of hours longer than they would in a freshwater aquarium.

Do you have access to live brine shrimp in the Netherlands? Are brine shrimp eggs as incredibly expensive there as they are in the US?

If you - or I -really want to research brine shrimp, a Google search revealed a lot of places around the world doing research on them. Among a lot of others, there is a US research center
http://www.snarc.ars.usda.gov/Research/ludwig.htm

and the most famous one at Ghent:
http://allserv.ugent.be/aquaculture/general/general2.htm

"Again, thanks for the thinking!" Well.... I try every now and again. ;)

All the best!
Scott Davis

[ Parent ]



English is hard sometimes :S (none / 0) (#4)
by marijke on Wed Oct 27, 2004 at 05:43:24 PM PST

Oops, I think there is a misunderstanding about my Dutch translation for "brine shrimps"...! My fault...

With brine shrimps I meant (just raced through google to find out) "daphnia", not "artemia"...
Those words we didn't learn at school...

To avoid more misunderstandings from me: what's the english word for Daphnia's, those small transparant red things we use to feed fish?

I gave them daphnia, not artemia...
Greetings, Marijke (The Netherlands)
[ Parent ]



Re: English is hard sometimes :S (none / 0) (#5)
by PeterW on Fri Oct 29, 2004 at 09:28:53 AM PST

Daphnia is the same everywhere.

[ Parent ]


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