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Guppy fry | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
Didn't GG suggest about a month? (none / 0) (#2)
by unclescott on Wed Dec 31, 2003 at 06:21:10 PM PST

Unless ... you want to selectively breed any of those off spring. Then you might want to raise a batch separately and at a couple of weeks remove female fry to a third (!) tank. That is only for the person who really wants to control and improve/ maintain a strain. (That offers the best chances to do those things though.) For most aquarists that will not be the case. (You can see how the # of tanks one has can explode!)

If you were to let a guppy strain just reside in a planted tank for generations, letting EVERYONE breed, the strain would begin to revert to the wild form of guppy.

As for that mystical rule of thumb, (repeat after me) "If a fish can fit in the mouth of another, it most likely _ _ _ _ ." ;)

While on the subject of cannibalism... I'm still pondering some of the things Stan Shubul wrote in his book.

He observed that eating young may be a behavioral trait of some guppy females, despite heavy feeding. Most females which prove themselves cannibals, he gets rid of immediately. If it was an exceptional fish, he will give it a second chance - also that gives him a chance to save some fry. ;)

Two strikes and even the fabulous fish is out though. By doing that, he has pretty much bred out that tendancy in his guppies.

Some of my experience with livebearers and more importantly, James Langhammer's thoughts via the Livebearer Mailing List, have also indicated that one can teach cannibalism. If the parents (and community of a species) are starved for protein, they will eat the young. Both in the aquarium and in nature, if there are lots of alternative protein (food) sources, the adult fish, in many, many, cases, will recognize the young of their species (at least up to a certain age) and leave them alone.

Once an aquarium fish is trained (conditioned) as a cannibal, it will always be much harder to rescue fry. :(

Never thought about breeding for behavioral traits. Aquarists do that all the time though. (The imported wild individual fish and even whole species which are too aggressive don't get reproduced (having killed one another off or devoured the young - "Honey I Ate The Kids") and are lost to the hobby.

[ Parent ]



About a month, (none / 0) (#3)
by guppygirl on Thu Jan 01, 2004 at 12:17:18 PM PST

is a safe bet, unless you are working on improving a strain, as US mentioned.

How long did it take Shubul to breed out the cannibalistic traits?
Has he tried Ken's food? :-)
I'd wonder how much protein is in the diet, some fish may just require more...

Ask any two women how much weight they gained while they were expecting, and you'll be hard pressed to find any two the same.
(Oh, and don't even get me started on cravings);-)

But then, we have an advantage over our fish,
we can feed ourselves.

BTW, why would you want to "teach cannibalism"?

gg
:-)

[ Parent ]



Teaching cannibalism is not something one (none / 0) (#4)
by unclescott on Thu Jan 01, 2004 at 04:07:35 PM PST

would want to do. ;) However, during busy work weeks (50-60-70+ hours) a lot of people don't feed their fish as well as they should. Then the livebearers and guppies are "too" hungry.

Think about who you learned to swear from. Your parents hadn't intended to teach you that either. ;) Regretably, sometimes these things happen.

Hypothetically, one could assume in nature, if there was not enough food in the pond, that cannibalism might help preserve the species. The adult might be able to hang on (until the rainy season?) when food would be more plentiful. Theoretically if the adults were starving, there might not have been enough food for the fry anyway.

Your's is a good question about protein in the diet. Sometimes the big issue is just consistantly feeding them. Any food is better than nothing.

Shubul didn't say when his guppies pretty much ceased cannibalism. On the other hand he didn't keep the cannibals or let them reproduce. He does continue his lines for years, selecting the best of each generation and back crossing lines every 6 generations or so. For instance he keeps three or four lines of his blue guppies.

He wrote that he often isolates his females before they drop. While they could have copies the pattern of eating fry from a holding tank (Shubul admits to getting so busy he may not isolate all females as soon as he would like - but he usually only breeds fish collected from controlled situations.) Humm, he always keeps tanks of virgin females of key strains too. They wouldn't be in a position to "learn" that foraging pattern prior to impregnation.

It is up, I would guess that you could link to the IFGA page and Shubul's page and check around.

If you want a spoof on killer guppies, go to:  http://www.killerguppies.com/

Naturally that site isn't up this morning. Hummm.... too much happy new year?

Ken is a president or former president of an Aquarium Club from the east coast. I wish him the very best with his growing mail order business.

While Shubul has long been an advocate of varied feeding, he also has been keeping guppies since before a lot of us were born. Who knows if he purchases these days from Ken? :)

Why don't you ask them. ;)
http://www.ifga.org/guppy_store/gs_shubel.htm

[ Parent ]



Hey Wooly! Didn't mean to leave you out of (none / 0) (#5)
by unclescott on Thu Jan 01, 2004 at 05:57:14 PM PST

the discussion. Obviously your question got us thinking about fry size - and then other aspects of guppy care.

There is more to life than just reading. And I don't think that one should have to spend a ton of money on books to support their hobbies. However there are a number of neat titles which could be of use to you.

If you were to go to your public library, when ever convenient, set yourself up at their computer and type in guppies and guppy and "breeding guppies" in their topic search, You would see what they and neighboring libraries have available. Borrowing from a nearby library is your right as a taxpaying member of their library district. My local library borrowed a couple $100 worth of books through interlibrary loan on my behalf last year. Why not? :)

If you feel so lead, one good book for everyone is the Baensch Atlas, vol. 1 especially. That guppy book I was referring to is out of print. I got a copy after a pretty good Internet hunt. But you probably could get the library to find Stan Shubel's THE PROPER CARE OF GUPPIES (TFH Publications, 1995). Guppy Girl, of this site, mentioned a pretty good list of guppy books, a few month ago.

Interestingly, if you were to go to the halfcom site, http://half.ebay.com/index.jsp
and click on books and do a search for "Guppies" you will also get quite a list of books to look for. Again put your library to work.

The search engine on this site has been both useful and useless, but give it a try. Also click through the back diaries and logs here. There is an increasing amount of useful info and discussion which has been generated by good questions such as yours.

If you really want to read about guppies, a google search is also useful. Sites like the IFGA site is helpful and also offers a nice set of links to connect to.

Please let us know how your guppies are doing. I hope the above responses are useful for you.

[ Parent ]



Thanks! (none / 0) (#6)
by woolly on Sat Jan 03, 2004 at 01:00:03 PM PST

hey thanks for all your help! I have visited the local library and have a number of books that I will be reading thoroughly!

[ Parent ]


That's great Woolly!!! (none / 0) (#7)
by guppygirl on Sun Jan 04, 2004 at 01:57:33 PM PST

Pass the titles of any really good ones on to us here, O.K.?

Some of us love to read.

Thanks,

gg
:-)

[ Parent ]



Guppy fry | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)
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